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Thread: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

  1. #51

    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo
    Bullshit is not a plus.
    There goes my chance. :roll:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo
    being of few words is so often a good thing in this Practice
    There goes alot of chances for alot of people. 8)

  2. #52
    Treeleaf Unsui Dosho's Avatar
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    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo
    Someone asked what to call Shohei, Hans and Fugen after they are ordained as "Priest-Trainees". I would suggest "Shohei, Hans and Fugen".
    :mrgreen:

    Thank you Jundo.

  3. #53

    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo
    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie
    I think it's a necessary and useful method of developing teachers, but it's not a perfect system and some real dull-eyed folks have gotten to ascend their own 'Roshi throne'
    Taigu and I feel the same way. We are setting out to do this right and, frankly, better than it has often been done.
    Hi! :wink:
    For me it is probably the most important and I'm sure you will!
    Thank you for your explanations, things needed to be said

    gassho,
    Jinyu

  4. #54

    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    .

  5. #55
    disastermouse
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    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    I'm usually suspicious of all the 'cruft' that goes along with Zen - the tradition, the hagiography (addressed by Jundo already), etc...and just a lot of the 'inside club' stuff I've seen at other centers.

    But for some reason, I'm pretty excited about this. I don't know Hans or Fugen at all - and Steph makes a good point about how they are not really frequent contributors to the forum lately. I'm sure that'll probably change quite a bit in the coming months and years and so I'm looking forward to getting to know them and their teaching styles. That said, I don't really worry about whether Jundo or Taigu have thought about this - they seem to be pretty deliberate about it thus far and I've genuinely grown to trust them pretty darned well. I don't know when it happened, but somewhere along the line, Jundo became 'my' teacher (in my conversations about Treeleaf in the 'meatworld') and Treeleaf became 'my sangha'. I've been so reticent about being a 'joiner' - it's not my natural tendency and my way of communicating, as many can probably tell, shows it - but nonetheless, here I am, a member of an actual Sangha and not just 'free-balling' it anymore. That sort of trust is new to me, and the reason it hasn't happened in other places is specifically because of all the weird politics of Zen - that combined with the fact that pretty much all of my disagreements with the management here have been about teensy little things in relation to what I think is the important part of Zen practice. I don't doubt that Jundo and Taigu place importance on what is, in my mind at least, the 'big stuff'.

    I talk with Dirk on Facebook chat from time to time - and a few things stick out for me. First, he's incredibly generous of spirit. Second, he's pretty enthusiastic about the practice. Three, he's humble. Four, he's unbelievably dedicated in a weirdly 'quiet' way. He may not be one of the 'loud bunch' here, but he'd literally give you the rakusu off his back. My only surprise about his inclusion in the first batch is that because he's so self-deprecating, it wouldn't have occurred to me that he'd ever think himself 'ready'. Good on him that he is! (Oh yeah, a final thing that stands out about chatting with Dirk is that nearly every time I we talk, I leave the conversation feeling like I really need to increase my own dedication to my Zazen practice.)

    Anyway, that's just my thinking about this - take it or leave it. Honestly, regardless of what anyone may think of the 'first three' - they definitely ought to at least be given a chance before we start saying 'why them?'

    Why them? Why not?. From my limited perspective, I don't see anything particularly glaring that should keep them from pursuing this if it's in their hearts.

    Chet

  6. #56
    Treeleaf Unsui Myozan Kodo's Avatar
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    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    Shohei, Hans and Fugen, this is great news. An auspicious announcement! To take on the name of “priest” in 2010 is a brave move. There is a daunting responsibility to bring honour to the title in the times we live in. It is a joyous occasion that persons of your quality will do just that.
    Congratulations and respect,
    Soen

  7. #57

    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    Quote Originally Posted by Undo

    Do you mind if I ask why you didn't want Kyrillos to mention it until now?

    Gassho

    undo
    Oh, I just asked him to hold off a few days, cause I thought it would be nice if we could celebrate all together like this.

  8. #58
    Treeleaf Unsui Myozan Kodo's Avatar
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    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    By the way, the two things that have ruined Ireland have been priests and booze. Hopefully, my respect for one of these two will go up in the near future!
    ;-)
    Soen

  9. #59

    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    Ya know, "priest" or "monk" are terms that are actually pretty ill fitting translations for the original Japanese/Chinese (or Pali/Sanskrit) ... imposed when Judeo-Christian vocabulary was used to translate concepts that are different in important ways. I usually post this ...

    The words "monk" and "priest" do not really work as good translations of the Japanese terms, and were picked, obviously, from a Judeo-Christian vocabulary. "Priest" carries the feeling of working some power to intervene with God/the spirits, and most Zen "monks" only reside in monasteries for short periods as part of their training ... so both words are not good fits (except when the person is actually residing in a monastery and might be described then as a "monk".). The best translations might be "Companion" "Guide" "Teacher" or (my favorite) "Rabbi (which also means "teacher")".

    I prefer "Zen clergy or teacher or minister ". One of the many Japanese terms usually (and awkwardly) translated as "monk/priest" in English is actually closer to "Buddhist companion", which I care for very much ...

    ??

    So "Buddhist companion" may be the most accurate.

    Of course, many "Zen priests" in Japan and China do reside in temples in which they are largely concerned with performing funeral and other ceremonies for parishioners to appease the spirits, bring good fortune or the like. In such case, "priest" is not inaccurate to describe such folks.

  10. #60

    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    I'm not sure where I heard this, but Shukke does not a teacher make . . . that Jundo and/or Taigu must still give them permission later to teach if they have proven to have all of the skills to do so. In other words, they have entered seminary, but haven't been accorded any special status. I'm thinking of the many people who enter monasteries and receive Shukke ordination but leave after a couple of years to do other things besides teach.

    So, here at Treeleaf there may be some implicit understanding that Shukke is about heading toward being a teacher, but the primary spirit as I understand it is that of leaving the 'small self' behind and dedicating oneself to the three jewels. That may end up manifesting as something other than being a dharma teacher.

    As was said about Jukai, if you are already living with that dedication, then you have already taken Shukke just not formally.

    Am I offbase?

    --Eika

  11. #61

    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    Quote Originally Posted by Eika
    I'm not sure where I heard this, but Shukke does not a teacher make . . . that Jundo and/or Taigu must still give them permission later to teach if they have proven to have all of the skills to do so. In other words, they have entered seminary, but haven't been accorded any special status. I'm thinking of the many people who enter monasteries and receive Shukke ordination but leave after a couple of years to do other things besides teach.

    So, here at Treeleaf there may be some implicit understanding that Shukke is about heading toward being a teacher, but the primary spirit as I understand it is that of leaving the 'small self' behind and dedicating oneself to the three jewels. That may end up manifesting as something other than being a dharma teacher.

    As was said about Jukai, if you are already living with that dedication, then you have already taken Shukke just not formally.

    Am I offbase?

    --Eika
    Hi.

    No.
    And i don't see us being any different even after (if ever) getting Dharma Transmission.
    I would be the same guy doing the same things as now, just with another title.
    THe difference might be that people think of me in a way that might not be true, since there's been all sorts of delusions of this (see my first post).
    I'm just a guy who got asked to do this and said "ok! let's do it."
    Nothing more, nothing less.
    Just me.

    Mtfbwy
    Fugen

  12. #62

    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    So will we get to see your face now, Fugen?

  13. #63

    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    Quote Originally Posted by Eika
    So will we get to see your face now, Fugen?
    Hi.
    I'm here, just phone me up(pm me and you will get my skype).
    Also The dharma marxbrothers usually sit in on the sunday teaparty.... :roll:

    Mtfbwy
    Fugen

  14. #64

    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    Quote Originally Posted by Fugen
    Quote Originally Posted by Eika
    So will we get to see your face now, Fugen?
    Hi.
    I'm here, just phone me up(pm me and you will get my skype).
    Also The dharma marxbrothers usually sit in on the sunday teaparty.... :roll:

    Mtfbwy
    Fugen
    Fugen,

    Please do put up a photo that shows your face ... showing what a cute guy you are. 8)

    Anyway, you haven't had that beard for a long time now.

    And that hat always reminds me of stevie ray vaughan


  15. #65

    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    Quote Originally Posted by Fugen
    Quote Originally Posted by Eika
    Also The dharma marxbrothers usually sit in on the sunday teaparty.... :roll:

    Mtfbwy
    Fugen
    I'll see if I can get ustream and my computer to get along again. I punted a few months ago on the live ustream thing because I was always getting bumped.

    Peace

  16. #66

    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    Please do put up a photo that shows your face ... showing what a cute guy you are. 8)

    Anyway, you haven't had that beard for a long time now.

    And that hat always reminds me of stevie ray vaughan



    I Just Love SRV, lynyrd skynyrd too. why is it that so many great guitarists and bands die in a plane or chopper crash?

    Gassho, D.

  17. #67
    Treeleaf Unsui Myozan Kodo's Avatar
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    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    Whatever word is used to describe this committment to the path, it is a great and blessed thing when someone follows in the footsteps of the Buddha. Staying at home or leaving home: it is the same thing in the world of emptiness. May all the Buddhas of the three times and the ten directions bless the journey of ordination that you are seeting out on.

    Gassho,
    Soen

  18. #68

    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    I'm happy for and proud of all involved. I'm also jealous of the level of commitment that I can't seem to maintain, but keep trying to do. Thanks for all you do. gassho, Ann

  19. #69
    Senior Member Martin's Avatar
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    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    Well. Shohei, Hans and Fugen, and indeed Jundo and Taigu, respect to you all for undertaking this commitment. "Leaving home" sounds a bit scary; may you also find home, if indeed you ever leave it.

    Gassho

    Martin

  20. #70

    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    Gassho, for your practice. I am most happy for the three of you.

  21. #71

    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    I wander off for awhile and look what happens! :shock: Congratulations to all and thank you all for your practice.

    Gassho, Jikyo

  22. #72

    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    My very belated congratulations to Shohei, Hans and Fugen. Thanks for your practice guys and I wish you all the best!!!

    Gassho,

    Ryan

  23. #73

    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    May I chime in...

    I think that this is a very courageous venture for all involved.

    For Jundo and Taigu in deciding to do this now.

    For Shohei, Hans and Fugen for initiating or accepting the invitation to be the first candidates for "priest-apprentice" in the Zen tradition.

    For Kyrillos for taking the step to go beyond his own tradition and fully immerse himself in another tradition. Bede Griffiths and others--but few others--have had such courage even in the face of opposition from the institutional Church.

    Speaking of Church...Soen's comment about priests being the ruin of Ireland may be an apt analogy here.

    If priests are now the ruin of Ireland, there was a time when they were the salvation of the Irish people. During those penal days when the priests (and nuns) sacrificed themselves on the side of the persecuted, the poor, the marginalized...It was only during the passing of centuries when priests, forgetting their calling, became deified that they started to act like kings instead of servants of the people. "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    As Jundo said:
    it is a lowering of oneself in offering to the community, much as all of us sometimes deeply bow upon the ground in humility, raising up others and the whole world above our humbled heads.
    The priests in Ireland need to remind themselves, nay live this statement NOW as ever before. The Master they purport to follow had said as much: "The first shall be last and the last shall be first. They who exalts themselves must humble themselves. The one who wishes to lead must be the servant of all."

    Treeleaf is embarking on a new and courageous journey here and now. Let us not forget this humble beginning or in forgetting it, it may be our ruin as well.

    Deep, deep bows to all,
    nine times deep bows,
    900 deep bows to all,

    James.

  24. #74

    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    Good luck to the three of you!

    May all beings be free from suffering.

    Gassh?,

  25. #75
    Senior Member murasaki's Avatar
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    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    Congratulations! Deep gassho and best wishes to you on your incredible journey.

    Julia

  26. #76

    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    Congratulations to all, and thank you for your practice.

    Gassho.

  27. #77
    Treeleaf Unsui Myozan Kodo's Avatar
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    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    Hi James,

    It is true what you say about the priests of old Ireland. They were once on the side of the poor and oppressed. Indeed, many of them still are, despite the corruption and cover up in the Irish church in recent years.

    I think Jundo is right when he places emphasis on the quality of the individual person being ordained. You can have good and bad priests, and even the Soto school has had its scandals and falls from grace at times. That is what happens in religious institutions with long histories. And that is why ordinees need to be chosen so carefully, as Jundo and Taigu are doing. It’s a pity all priests weren’t chosen with such care.

    Gassho,
    Soen

  28. #78
    Senior Member AlanLa's Avatar
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    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    Great news for all of us, including The Three Originals.

    On with the journey!!!!!

  29. #79

    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    Good luck fellas.

    R

  30. #80
    Member Seona's Avatar
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    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo
    (being of few words is so often a good thing in this Practice)
    A wise teacher once said to me, "There is nothing wrong with being quiet in Zen." :wink:

    These were reassuring words for someone who tends to sit quietly in the background and not say much. If I had access to a sangha in my community, I imagine I would be much the same. It's just the way I am. I will probably never post just for the sake of posting, but helpful comments are definitely useful, and it's a good way to let Jundo and Taigu know we are here, listening and learning. Note to myself: It might be good to remember that it is difficult to 'see' the quiet ones online. Such is the way of computers.

    Congrats, lucky three. It will be an amazing journey.

    Seona

  31. #81
    Myoshin
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    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    Congrats to you three!

    I wish you all the best of luck.

    I do believe this is going to be interesting to see pan out.


    Gassho,
    Kyle

  32. #82
    Senior Member Shonin's Avatar
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    Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Our 1st Treeleaf “Home-Leaving Ordinations

    How fantastically wondrous!! Congrats to all Three of you!!!!!

    _/_

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