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Thread: 7/31 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 1-21 to 2-4

  1. #1

    7/31 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 1-21 to 2-4

    Hi,

    We continue with some of Master Dogen's locker room pep talks ...

    The theme of 1-21, addressed to monks in a monastery, can be the wider issue of "leaving family". Can we "leave our family behind", and all attachments ... even as we are fully with and present for our families, not two? Is it possible to be both ways at once?

    For 2-1 through 2-4, the theme might be what it truly means to "do good" ...

    So, be good! :-)

    Gassho, J

  2. #2

    Re: 7/31 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 1-21 to 2-4

    Dear Jundo sensei?

    Yes,that is pretty hard to giving up everything, when we practice dharma, we need to keep the noble Eightfold path anytime, therefore we should leave a suffering because everything are Impermanence(The Nature of Suffering (Dukkha) from Forth Noble truths).

    gassho, tony yeung

  3. #3

    Re: 7/31 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 1-21 to 2-4

    Quote Originally Posted by tonyyeung
    Dear Jundo sensei?

    Yes,that is pretty hard to giving up everything, when we practice dharma, we need to keep the noble Eightfold path anytime, therefore we should leave a suffering because everything are Impermanence(The Nature of Suffering (Dukkha) from Forth Noble truths).

    gassho, tony yeung
    Absolutely, Tony. The Buddha's most fundamental teaching of the Four Noble Truths, the Eightfold Path and Impermanence are at the Heart of our Practice ... as much as for any school and style of Buddhism.

    We looked at each and all most closely during the recent series of sittings on the theme of the Heart Sutra.... The series of little talks started here (I think the links are still working), and it is the Heart of our Practice.

    http://blog.beliefnet.com/treeleafzen/2 ... su-26.html

    Gassho, Jundo

  4. #4

    Re: 7/31 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 1-21 to 2-4

    1-21
    "Further, even if they carry out hard and painful practices without clinging to their bodily lives, if their minds have not yet entered the Buddha-Way and if they resolve not to act against their own will even if such actions are the Buddha-Way, they have not yet given up their minds."

    That's a tuff one so I'll try to give up my mind one moment at a time.

  5. #5

    Re: 7/31 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 1-21 to 2-4

    In this week’s reading what really caught my eye was a footnote.

    Dogen compares our minds to wild horses and our emotions to wild monkeys swinging in the trees.
    Gassho,
    BrianW

  6. #6

    Re: 7/31 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 1-21 to 2-4

    2-1
    "Just be alert in every encounter. As for beginners in practice, subdue evil in your mind, and carry out good with your body without being concerned whether they are worldly or human sentiments. This is the meaning of abandoning body and mind."

    Just pay attention and you will naturally do the right action. For each moment we are all beginners in practice. Without thinking what is the body and mind. The wind blowing thru the trees.

  7. #7

    Re: 7/31 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 1-21 to 2-4

    1-21: I think there are two levels addressed in here: First is a primarily aimed at monks, who left their families to live in the monastery. It is important, that they put all their power and focus in working for the monastery and not think about the families or the ones they left. They depend on each other in every aspect of their lifes and each of them has to do his task with the greatest focus and precision.

    The second aspect is that it may be necessary to practice what may cause pain, to follow the Buddha-Way. We may have to drop our judgements of what is good and bad (for our body).

  8. #8

    Re: 7/31 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 1-21 to 2-4

    2-1: Pretty concrete:

    Finally, forget evil intentions, forget your own body, and carry out your activities solely for the sake of the buddha-dharma. Just be alert in every encounter. As for beginners in practice, subdue evil in your mind, and carry out good with your body without being concerned whether they are worldly or human sentiments. This is the meaning of abandoning body and mind.
    The intention for all action is the action itself.

  9. #9

    Re: 7/31 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 1-21 to 2-4

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixFiresky
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich
    Just pay attention and you will naturally do the right action.
    That's a reassuring thought, isn't it?
    Yes it is, but it's the pay that's most important.


    2-2

    "Even if we gave the whole body of the Buddha to people who are actually about to die of starvation, such an action would certainly be in accordance with the Buddha’s will."

    I need to donate again to the local food bank.

  10. #10

    Re: 7/31 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 1-21 to 2-4

    2-4
    "If deep in your heart you think what you have accomplished through studying for many years with great effort cannot be given up easily, such a mind itself is one bound by life-and-death (samsara)."

    don't replace your everyday neurotic thinking with zen neurotic thinking

  11. #11

    Re: 7/31 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 1-21 to 2-4

    1.21 This seems to me to be about the way we hold ourselves back by being scared of opening ourselves fully to life, of still maintaining protective barriers that shield us from the messier parts. We often just want to dip our toes in the water of Buddhism, not dive right in.

    2.1 Or subduing our false sense of self - our constructed false notion of what a great person we are that needs continuous praise and reinforcement to survive.

    2.2 “The buildings of Kenninji are located very close to the river. Surely the time will come when they will be destroyed by a flood.” This prudent attitude is so like the way the world (and myself) tends to think. Yet, though we shouldn't act foolishly, we should be accustoming ourselves to the nature of impermanence.

    2.3 Slander is better for us then praise though we don't like it much. Getting angry or feeling hurt from slander shows us areas where we are stuck, things we take needless pride in and need to work with. And as the second part of this teaching points out, we needn't expect any reward or praise for noticing and correcting these traits - rather, others might envy our equanimity and want to upset us by saying or doing things that bring us back to a 'normal' samsara state.

    2.4 " ....refrain from making judgments based on discrimination between good and evil " I have read this teaching so many times but it is only getting through to me now that I do not have to automatically classify events in my life as good or bad and that I should just let them be what they are without judging them one way or another.

    Gassho,
    Doshin

  12. #12
    Treeleaf Unsui Dosho's Avatar
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    Re: 7/31 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 1-21 to 2-4

    Some thoughts:

    1-21 -- Dogen was talking about retreating to physical places, but I think it can also be about where we go with our thoughts. We can quickly forget the Way and fall into old patterns, old worries. And even when we think we have truly left them behind, they are still with us. I'll admit that I would often choose relieving pain temporarily instead of taking the true path. We are never guaranteed happiness or enlightenment, so it can be too easy to choose quick comforts. But only by walking the path can we ever truly be happy and content, so why not head in that direction and see what happens...or doesn't happen?

    2-1 -- This links back to some of the earlier sections on not seeking fame or profit. I think many of us grow up thinking that showing off good deeds is appopriate and hiding our mistakes is natural, but I really have had it backwards. Do good for the sake of doing good...do not descend into seeking praise. But also don't think in terms of good and evil....it is never that simple.

    2-2 -- We dedicate ourselves to allieviate the suffering of all beings, but do not lose sight of how we can do this in daily encounters. Practice is important, sitting is essential...so is showing kindness to the sales clerk, nurse, or complete stranger. Often we miss the bigger picture and cannot see the forest for the trees...but sometimes it is just about a single tree. That simple moment can be everything.

    2-3 -- In my life I have often spent too much time thinking and worrying about what others think of me. To think I can modify my behavior to change these thoughts is delusion. Do what is right and don't worry how you will be seen. Dogen says to "practice inwardly" and follow the Way with no fanfare...if you do this your true nature will show for all to see. Fame and fortune are meaningless in and of themselves, but especially so when walking the path.

    2-4 -- It isn't about you! It isn't even about doing good per se since labeling something as "good" creates its opposite. Stay away from this kind of thinking since you will always come up with a different definition than what others carry with them. Do not call pain "bad" because, if that is part of the way, it cannot be bad or evil. This process will not happen easily or quickly, but it CAN happen if you walk the path. Life there is not lived by tightly gripping...it is lived by letting go.

    Gassho,
    Dosho

  13. #13

    Re: 7/31 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 1-21 to 2-4

    Hi.

    1-21

    Students of the Way, you must be very careful on several levels in giving up worldly sentiment. Give up the world, give up your family, and give up your body and mind. Consider this well.
    2-1

    forget evil intentions, forget your own body, and carry out your activities solely for the sake of the buddha-dharma. Just be alert in every encounter
    2-4

    A student of the Way must abandon human sentiments.To abandon human sentiments is to practice following the buddha-dharma.
    ...
    Cast aside both mind and thoughts based on the various teachings you have learned in the past, and gradually turn your mind into the words and deeds of the buddhas and patriarchs you are encountering right now.
    What he is saying is "let it go", drop all thoughts of this and that.
    Just "be".

    Mtfbwy
    Tb

  14. #14

    Re: 7/31 - SHOBOGENZO-ZUIMONKI - 1-21 to 2-4

    Hi.

    2-3

    The emperor replied, “As a sovereign, if I have virtue, I am not afraid of being slandered by people. I’m more afraid of being praised despite the lack of it.”
    People always talk.
    The thing is what you think about it.

    Mtfbwy
    Fugen

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