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Thread: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

  1. #1
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
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    Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Hi everybody,

    If all goes to plan, I should be visiting Jundo this summer and start the kesa project online. What is it about? As you know, wearing the kesa is a very important point in Zen practice in our tradition. We already have a complete set of videos about sewing a rakusu that we designed prior to the last Jukai, the rakusu being the small version of the kesa. Many of you would like to sew a kesa now. A couple of very adventurous, bold and courageous sitters already did it and I am both amazed and very proud of their work. So, let's start!

    Let's make it clear that only the people with the experience of sewing a rakusu are invited to sew a kesa. You actually need that experience to really be able to pull it together by yourself, without any direct instruction.
    Sewing a kesa (big or small) should only be for the people receiving Jukai. It is not another toy. It has a profound meaning connected to shikantaza and the understanding of the Buddhist path. And please, read this excellent teaching of Kishigami roshi: http://www.zen-road.org/index.php?optio ... 27&lang=en
    You have three ways to go about it, go to my blog and fish the information there... http://nyohoekesa.blogspot.com/2006_02_01_archive.html , go at the bottom of the page and read all the way up, please.This blog is designed following the instructions left by Sawaki Kodo.
    You also may get the book of Tomoe Katagiri, the wife of the late Katagiri roshi: Study of the Okesa, Nyoho-e, Buddha's robe published by Minnesota Zen Meditation Center in Minneapolis. It is a great book following Hashimoto Roshi's instructions ( a bit different from Sawaki Kodo). I shall stick to Sawaki's original teachings and measurements as explained on my blog but please, feel free to go for Hashimoto Roshi's method, particularly if you get hold of the book and relate well to written instructions. The book is also very precious for it has detailed drawings about stitches, how to fold the corners and so forth...
    I will also need the help and active participation of some of you, three people come to mind : Jinho for her great experience and expertise, she is our best ruler and iron teacher, no doubt; Shohei for his experience of sewing freelance and brilliantly succeeding and Dosho for his kindness and devotion to the process. Sorry if i have left somebody out...But basically, we all have to help each other.
    Let me know of your observations. Ask any question you would like.


    gassho


    Taigu

    Attached files

  2. #2

    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Wonderful News Taigu!

    Thank you for your commitment.

    Gassho,

    Hans

  3. #3

    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Hi
    Indeed wonderful news!
    I will gladly help in any way possible. I will be sewing along as well.
    A wonderful opportunity - Thank you Taigu, Jundo and everyone for it!

    Gassho, Shohei

  4. #4

    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Thanks, Taigu. Still grinding away at mine slowly (we were away on holiday for a bit).

    Looking forward to it,

    Gassho,
    Bill

  5. #5
    Treeleaf Unsui Dosho's Avatar
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    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Hi all,

    Wonderful news indeed, indeed! I will do whatever I can to help, even if it is providing an example of what not to do! At times I have felt stalled on my kesa, being about 6 months in and only having just short of 4 stripes sewn together. However, my wife says, "Not stalled...steady." You can see why I love her so.

    Things will get a bit tougher in the coming days with the baby coming (1 week from tomorrow if not sooner!), but as is often the case Shohei has blazed that trail already and done quite well. In any case I shall be sewing with all of you and I am looking very much forward to the discussion.

    Gassho,
    Dosho

  6. #6

    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    [quote="Dosho"]
    Things will get a bit tougher in the coming days with the baby coming (1 week from tomorrow if not sooner!), /quote]

    Keep us posted. We are all uncles and aunts.

    Gassho, Uncle Jundo

  7. #7

    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    hi

    do taigu sensei mention that the kesa or rakusu colour before?

    priest -> black
    teacher -> brown
    shagha lay -> blue

    also do we do the half kesa?
    ?????????)

    gassho, tony

  8. #8

    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Hi Tony
    Thank you for the meaning of the colours. Good to know especially if visiting zendo/temple in person and they follow that stucture.
    In the Rakusu sewing thread colours and such were discussed, if i remember correctly - which often i do not! . The colours, here at Treeleaf, I think were not emphasized to be As important to indicate rank or role, more, just stay with in the recommended muted darker colours(the one i sewed and recieved is still brown and blue patches - perhaps it should have been dyed prior to sewing ops: ).
    Those who took Jukai earlier on this year have sewn their rakusu and now can sew the Kesa. those who are taking part in the Jukai ceremony this year are to sew the Rakusu and not the Kesa.

    Gassho, Shohei

  9. #9
    Member miheco's Avatar
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    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    I've been waiting for this and checking the forum for the words Kesa OKESA, several times a week. Now I can prepare my sewing area, mind and spastic hand for this, can't wait to get started.

    In reference to colors mentioned above I clipped this quote this from Taigu's Blog:

    The kesa is the robe of sitting Zen. It is not only the robe of monks, nuns, priests, abbots and the likes. Everybody can wear a kesa. There is no requirement. In Dogen’s ligneage, one sits wrapped in the kesa, and that’s it.

    You may find in various Sangha the belief that the true kesa of the monk is black, that brown or light-coloured kesa are for teachers and so forth… These rules do apply in the Soto sect. In the tradition of the Nyohoe kesa, these rules simply don’t apply.
    Gassho,
    Michael

  10. #10
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
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    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Hi all,

    If you don't mind, a quick word about colours. As I said previously, pitch black is not an option, this is not accepted in the Nyoho-e tradition although you'll find it all over Japan for novice monks. The colours we accept are dark brown, dark blue, grey and that's it. You may also dye the material mixing shades.
    I strongly recommand people to seek for Jinho'advice for anything to do with the needle. Jinho, are you around? Could you please remind us of your wonderful instructions as too how to dye fabric? And give everybody excellent guidelines?

    Thank you all, Dosho and Shohei, welcome in the sewing sensei team.

    gassho


    Taigu

  11. #11
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
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    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Hi Tony,

    We don't do this kind of kesa very much used for lay practice or ceremonies and visiting temples. It is not a nyoho-e type of kesa.

    And the color system you mention seems to become the norm in the USA...Not here. In the nyoh0 e tradition, the rule is muted, dull, mixed, earthy,dirty color so black is excluded. As the lighter the shade, the higher rank the teacher is...forget about it too.

    The greatest kesa is called funzo e and is made of scaps of disregarded fabric, old pans and kimonos, stuff you would pick up in the garbage. Here are two examples of it:



    gassho

    Taigu

    Attached files

  12. #12

    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    hi taigu:

    i heard that there are three kinds of kesa is the good one in china:

    one from the emperior(in acient time in china or india) usually is purple colour
    one from like what you say, the clothes collected from dirty or be used
    one from your own roshi

    is that true?

    gassho, tony yeung

    P.S. by the way can you wear that colourful kesa and walk around?

  13. #13
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
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    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Here is what the kesa will look like, front and back:



    We will be making a seven stripes kesa.

    gassho

    Taigu

    Attached files

  14. #14
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
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    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Hi Tony,

    It is true that a purple ceremonial kesa was offered to Dogen and he always refused to wear it...
    Walking with the kesa? Well. the kesa is the robe of sitting, the bones and marrow of Buddha. You may do takuhatsu (begging) wrapped in the seven or better, in a nine stripes kesa. But walking around in Toronto or any other city, I don't see why we should do it. For travelling or moving around, monks generally wear the small kesa, the rakusu.

    gassho

    Taigu

  15. #15

    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Dear taigu sensei:
    thank you for your answer, now i really know what is it now. And i know you practice takuhatsu in japan, i hope one day i can do the same thing too.

    gassho, tony yeung

  16. #16

    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Quote Originally Posted by tonyyeung
    Dear taigu sensei:
    thank you for your answer, now i really know what is it now. And i know you practice takuhatsu in japan, i hope one day i can do the same thing too.

    gassho, tony yeung
    Hi Tony,

    I have not read this article for a long time, but it compares the Kesa tradition in various sects and countries. You may find it interesting (and more information than you really need) :-)

    http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma10/robe.html

    Someone from Europe once told me that only "teachers" are to have rings in their Rakusu, and that certain colors mean certain ranks (like you say). We do not follow that ... we are "people of no rank" 8)

    When I used to live in Beijing, I remember learning that during the Cultural Revolution, everyone wore a "Mao Jacket" ... because all were equal. But, really, the higher people had more pockets!



    In the current Soto sect in Japan, many Japanese do not receive any Rakusu when they receive Jukai (the Precepts). Or, they receive a slightly smaller version than a priest's Rakusu. The "Wagesa" in the picture you posted is often given to all parishioners of a particular temple without any particular ceremony being required, and they wear it at many group functions (such as group bus trips and such).

    Kesa/Rakusu in Japan (and other countries too) have also gotten to be much too fancy and ridiculous, almost like a fashion show. In fact ...

    TOKYO -- Japanese monks and nuns held a fashion show - replete with rap music and a catwalk - at a major Tokyo temple Saturday to promote Buddhism.
    http://www.chinadaily.net/world/2007-12 ... 324057.htm

    It is silly. Listen to Taigu ... and keep it simple is style, rich in meaning.

    Gassho, Jundo

  17. #17

    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Quote Originally Posted by Taigu
    Hi all,

    If you don't mind, a quick word about colours. As I said previously, pitch black is not an option, this is not accepted in the Nyoho-e tradition although you'll find it all over Japan for novice monks. The colours we accept are dark brown, dark blue, grey and that's it. You may also dye the material mixing shades.
    I strongly recommand people to seek for Jinho'advice for anything to do with the needle. Jinho, are you around? Could you please remind us of your wonderful instructions as too how to dye fabric? And give everybody excellent guidelines?

    Thank you all, Dosho and Shohei, welcome in the sewing sensei team.

    gassho


    Taigu
    HI all,

    Sorry, been busy, cat very ill......

    Dying fabric -

    Wash (with detergent) and dry your fabric. This is very important, you want to wash out any finish they have put on the fabric (to keep it looking nice and crisp on the bolt in the store).

    I have used Rit brand dye, boil it on stove, use a couple cups of salt, stir a lot, then rinse well (hot - then warm then cold water). However, I am sure it is 100% polluting chemicals, so here is a nicer way to dull down a fabric if needed: Brew black tea very strong, boil fabric a few minutes in the tea, the brown colour of the tea will dull down the fabric, then rinse, dry in clothes dryer (this helps to set the tint) and steam iron (this also helps to set the tint, also, although I haven't tried it, put a cup of salt in the tea bath (stir to desolve it) as this might help set the tint ("setting" means getting the dye to adhere to the fabric so it doens't wash out so much - of course, you will then hand wash your kesa, dry getnly in dryer and steam iron. You can also hang your fabric out in the sun and it will get sun-bleached (this will dull the color but also lighten it). DO NOT do this if you are using silk as it will dry out the silk and the silk will crack.

    For questions, Please PM me (my email box will get a notice that your have sent a PM).

    Always OBSESSIVELY helpfully yours (really it is not an exageration)
    gassho,
    rowan/jinho

  18. #18

    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Hi Phoenix
    It just got left off the list

    Quote Originally Posted by "From PDF File available [url=http://jundotreeleaf.googlepages.com/TREELEAFRAKUSUSEWINGGUIDE0917PDF.pdf
    here[/url] on the Sew-a-long thread from last years Jukai forum
    ":8prr57y8]• As to color: Please avoid bright primary colors (such as blue, yellow, red, white and pure black), and select ‘muddy’ colors such as dark brown or dark green (a nice Treeleaf color!), very dark blue or perhaps blue-ish black.
    Gassho
    Shohei

  19. #19

    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixFiresky
    I'm very sorry about your cat. I lost my kitty partner of 15 years a few years back and still miss her. I hope everything works out well for you and yours.

    In the video on sewing the rakusu, the color dark green was mentioned as being particularly appropriate for TreeLeafers. But here, we're being told that only brown, dark blue and grey are acceptable.

    Is dark green now unacceptable, or did it simply get left off the list?

    Gassho,
    Phoenix
    Greetings!

    Thank you for asking, kitty is fine. And thank you for asking about dark green since that is my choice.

    cheers,
    rowan/jinho

  20. #20
    Treeleaf Unsui Dosho's Avatar
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    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Hi all,

    Just finished attaching the fourth stripe...still can't seem to get a good shot of the stiching.

    Will be working on it during Ango...will post updates if people find them helpful or interesting.

    Gassho,
    Dosho

    Attached files

  21. #21

    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Looks perfect! Please do keep updates!

    Gassho, Shohei

  22. #22
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
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    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    looks great Dosho, really great!!!

    gassho


    Taigu

  23. #23

    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    If you would like to dye light colored fabric with natural dyes, there are excellent instructions and what plant to use for what color at Pioneer Thinking that are very simple. I have used them myself several times:
    http://www.pioneerthinking.com/naturaldyes.html

    Plant dyes come out duller than the color of the dye bath and are very 'earthy.' Inexpensive and simple to do as well.

  24. #24
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
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    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Thank you so much, Joshin, this is a real priceless information...

    A few years ago Dai E Bennage, abbess of Mt Equity wrote the following email to me:

    (...)I first made a robe for my teacher from some of this donated silk. Being from a poor temple, he'd given me his colored robe when I was given Transmission. The material I had was white. I did not have money to have it dyed. So I went on the alms round for seven months asking housewives if they might have some onion skins to spare. When I had the proper weight of onion skins (LOTS of onion skins!) I dyed the cloth with them, and set the color with the mordent of rusty nails. I boiled it outdoors with a long stove pipe supported by a step ladder, pointing the smoke away from the dye vat! It turned out to be "mokuren", like Soto robes generally are. I would never have had the courage to take on this challenge, except for being poor, and because the result was to be "mottled". How could I lose? "

    Yes, if you can do it, dying fabric with plants and minerals gives a much better shade. I have just bought a nyoho-e kesa made of hemp that was sewn in the second half of the 18 th century, the colour is beautiful and very light.

    gassho

    Taigu

  25. #25

    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Hi Taigu!
    I've got a question about rakusu sewing and Jukai ceremony, I don't know if it's the right place to ask it but ... :roll:

    In the past, I didn't take the precepts, mostly because I didn't "feel" anything with the master. But this year, I really like the very special adventure we are all living together, and I feel that I want to commit myself to this sangha!
    So I think I'll take the precepts in Treeleaf sangha.
    But I've got a little question to ask you.
    I began sewing a rakusu in June in case I take Jukai this year. It could seem a bit strange, but I do so every year. That's the third one I make, but this time I made it dark grey. (Usually in the Zen sangha in Brussels its black -> AZI...).
    The "problem" is that I began to sew this rakusu in June because I don't think It'll be possible for me to achieve a rakusu from october to december because of all the work I'll need to do in different schools all around the country.
    And than, I already finish the rakusu... but the idea was to share it with folks doing the same... :?

    Do you think I can keep the one I made these months for the jukai ceremony, or I HAVE to sew another one during next months with the risk to don't finish it for the ceremony?

    Personaly, I don't care to sew another one (as a lot of folks, sewing has been a kind of revelation... I just love it!) but I really don't think It'll be possible to achieve it in time...

    I'm going to put some photos of the rakusu with this message, for the moment I just have one photo in this computer ( I'm at my parents house) ., It's made with a fabric from a cotton "robe" from the late fifties I found in a "marché aux puces" in Brussels. And I sew the broken needle in the maneki in green, as I've seen some folks do it here at Treeleaf.

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EnCyZxKDk3...anthracite.jpg I take this picture when I was finishing the frame, at this level I had to correct some things, I had a problem of symetry and a small problem with a left corner...grrr it's a part of the beauty of sewing, but it's always a bit difficult (for the ego) to repeat something you just finish.... I'll put some photos of the realization and the achieved work Sunday or Monday (when I get an Internet connection).

    If it's not the right place to ask it, just say and I'll delete this message and send you a private message :wink:

    Gassho,

    Luis

  26. #26

    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Quote Originally Posted by Luis

    Do you think I can keep the one I made these months for the jukai ceremony, or I HAVE to sew another one during next months with the risk to don't finish it for the ceremony?

    Personaly, I don't care to sew another one (as a lot of folks, sewing has been a kind of revelation... I just love it!) but I really don't think It'll be possible to achieve it in time...

    Hi Luis,

    Pending Taigu's comment, I will just say that if you have already sewn a Rakusu (in fact, 3 Rakusu ! ) ... and especially as you do not have the time ... no, you are not asked to sew another as part of the Jukai.

    But please, if you have the time, bring your experience of doing so into helping others around here who are doing their first.

    Gassho, Jundo

  27. #27

    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo
    But please, if you have the time, bring your experience of doing so into helping others around here who are doing their first.
    Thanks for answering so quickly!

    In fact, not sharing the sewing with the other folks taking Jukai too was my main problem!
    I'll be glad to share my litlle experience with you guys!

    Gassho to all,

    Luis

  28. #28
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
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    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Hi Luis,

    my answer is the same as Jundo's.
    Don't worry. Just sew at your own rhythm.

    Take care

    gasho


    Taigu

  29. #29

    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Hi !

    Thank you too Taigu!
    I Think I'll probably begin another one because I just love it! :twisted:

    Here are some photos of the making and the final rakusu.

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EnCyZxKDk3...hracite-02.jpg
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_EnCyZxKDk3...hracite-03.jpg
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_EnCyZxKDk3...hracite-04.jpg

    And If I can give a sewing advice it will be : When you use an iron you don't know for the first time... Just put a fabric between the iron and your rakusu... because if you do not... it can burn... :roll:

    Gassho to you guys,

    Luis

  30. #30

    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Sorry I did a mistake! :?

    Luis

  31. #31

    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Luis!
    Those are absolutely wonderful!!

    Gassho
    Shohei

  32. #32
    Treeleaf Unsui Dosho's Avatar
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    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    What Shohei said...very nice work!

  33. #33

    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Thank you folks ops:

    Luis

  34. #34
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
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    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Great work, Luis and very precieous advice.

    gassho

    Taigu

  35. #35

    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Thank you Taigu :roll:

    By the way I was asking myself, if a new topic we'll be open for our rakusu sewing for Jukai? or maybe it's going to happend in this one, at the same time than the kesa sewing?

    Gassho,

    Luis

  36. #36
    Treeleaf Unsui Dosho's Avatar
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    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Hi Luis,

    If Jundo does things the same way as last year, everything will be in the forum area called "Jukai, Precepts Study, & Rakusu Sewing". I believe those emplty thread titles at the top are exactly where those three things will go for this year's activities.

    Gassho,
    Dosho

  37. #37
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
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    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    hi Luis,

    Yes Jundo is about to open a thread about rakusu sewing. I will be reading it every day and answer the best I can. Everyone is invited to give a hand, especially the one that have experience in the field... For the kesa journey, I am planning to record videos next summer but nothing stops you to start it following the very basic yet precise instructions that I left on line on the nyoho e blog http://nyohoekesa.blogspot.com/
    Your rakusu sewing is already very beautiful. Why not starting a kesa?

    gassho


    Taigu

  38. #38

    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Quote Originally Posted by Taigu
    hi Luis,

    Yes Jundo is about to open a thread about rakusu sewing. I will be reading it every day and answer the best I can.
    gassho


    Taigu
    Hi,

    I think we will get the whole ball of wax rolling ... Precepts study, Rakusu sewing, from about the weekend of next week, September 18th abouts.

    Rev. Taigu, does that work for you? Everyone?

    By the way, Taigu will be visiting Treeleaf Tsukuba that weekend (coming up from Osaka), so maybe we can have a short "Zazenkai" that weekend led by Taigu to commemorate the start of Jukai.

    Gassho, Jundo

  39. #39

    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    gassho...

    superb! I look forward to it...

    gassho
    tobiishi

  40. #40

    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Hi everyone!

    Thank you Dosho! It's true that with a title like "Jukai, Precepts Study, & Rakusu Sewing" it could include rakusu sewing for Jukai... sometimes I'm a bit absent minded :roll:

    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo
    Quote Originally Posted by Taigu
    ...Jundo is about to open a thread about rakusu sewing. I will be reading it every day and answer the best I can.
    Taigu
    I think we will get the whole ball of wax rolling ... Precepts study, Rakusu sewing, from about the weekend of next week, September 18th abouts.
    ...so maybe we can have a short "Zazenkai" that weekend led by Taigu to commemorate the start of Jukai.

    Gassho, Jundo
    Cool! :wink: It's good to see all these things are very near! :twisted:
    I'll be very happy to participate to precepts study and rakusu sewing! (like almost everyone in the sangha!!!) It's good to see this big adventure we are living together "follow his path", Thank you Jundo and Taigu for all the time and work you give!!!

    Of course I'll be glad to help if I can in the rakusu sewing, and I'll look closely to your blog Taigu! But I don't think I'll begin a kesa (at least not now :mrgreen: ). For the moment, if I start a new sewing work, I think it'll be another rakusu, so I'll be able to share it with the other folks going to Jukai!

    And the idea of a Zazenkai with Taigu to start Jukai seem a very good idea to me!

    Gassho to you folks!

    Luis

  41. #41

    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    When you sew a rakusu, should it always be in conjunction with a Jukai ceremony? If not, what do you use for the silk?

    Gassho,

    Kevin

  42. #42
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
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    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Hi Kevin,

    A rakusu should always be given by a teacher but not necesseraly during a Jukai ceremony ( although it often happens). In other words, the rakusu or the kesa should always be given by somebody else ( in theory), this means than one cannot certify oneself, that only another Buddha can certify the Buddha we are.

    gassho

    Taigu

  43. #43

    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Quote Originally Posted by Taigu
    Hi Kevin,

    A rakusu should always be given by a teacher but not necesseraly during a Jukai ceremony ( although it often happens). In other words, the rakusu or the kesa should always be given by somebody else ( in theory), this means than one cannot certify oneself, that only another Buddha can certify the Buddha we are.

    gassho

    Taigu
    Hi Taigu,

    Hmmm. Interesting.

    Taigu, what did you have in mind? I would have thought it would be given almost always with a Jukai or with an ordination (Tokudo), both of which are very similar and involve the Precepts. (In the old days, they did not even have Tokudo as such ... Buddha would just say "arise, Monk" and you were a monk. Still, they were undertaking the Precepts as soon as there were Precepts invented).

    You mean that someone might theoretically receive a Kesa in some way without the Precepts?

    Gassho, J

  44. #44
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
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    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Hi everybody,

    As far as I know, in order to receive your first kesa, you receive the precepts.When you are given the precepts, the kesa is given to you. If you receive another one, later, it could be done during a jukai, or more informaly, on a one to one basis, in the teacher's room, wherever. But, indeed, receiving the kesa and jukai go together.


    I hope this helps


    gassho

    Taigu

  45. #45
    Treeleaf Unsui Dosho's Avatar
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    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Hi Taigu,

    As part of my Ango commitments I posted that I would like to finish my kesa by the time of this year's jukai ceremony. Would that be a proper time to "receive" the kesa from either you or Jundo?

    Gassho,
    Dosho

  46. #46
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
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    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Hi Dosho,


    Well, you would have to ask Jundo, but theorically no problem doing it during the jukai ceremony, if they are a few people willing to receive a kesa. If not, this can be done separately in a private ceremony. Good luck with the sewing and please, don't hesitate to keep in touch.

    gassho

    Taigu

  47. #47

    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Oh boy ... have to think up a new "tradition" here for us. This is how they get started!

    Okay, how about everyone should sew and receive a Rakusu their first Jukai, after that they may (if they wish) sew and receive a full Kesa at any time including a second or later Jukai.

    Does that work?

    Also, feel free to receive that from the hands of me or Taigu, as you wish. After all ... Taigu is just Jundo, Jundo precisely Taigu, both exactly Dosho.

    Does that work too?

    Gassho, Taigu .... ah, I mean Jundo.

  48. #48

    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    well i guess i would like to saw a kesa too. although i doubt i could do it on written and drawings alone. might need the video instructions like we had for the rakusu.

    any plans on making a video for that?

    Gassho, Dojin.

  49. #49
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
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    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Hi Dojin,

    Nice to hear from you again. Yes, I am thinking about it next summer. The thing is, you see, there is a tremendous amount of preparation to create a propper video tutorial for kesa sewing and I would like to experiment as much as possible with natural and traditionnal dyes, exploring the Japanese tradition. It id s kind of miracle we ended up with this set of videos last time and it worked for most people. But a kesa is a real big scale, and it is a long long long job comapred to a rakusu...Nothing stops you to have a look on my kesa blog http://nyohoekesa.blogspot.com/ and start right now! It is not that difficult to work it out, I believe Fugen has started his...

    gassho

    Taigu

  50. #50

    Re: Kesa OKESA, it is about time!

    Hi.

    Yes, i have gotten to the cutting part..

    Mtfbwy
    Fugen

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