How big a violation of 'Right Livelihood' do ya think that would be?
How big a violation of 'Right Livelihood' do ya think that would be?
not that much i think.
as long as you do it with the right intent...
dont push it on people, and dont let people over drink if you can.
but what do i know? i love beer
I think something needs to be cleared up about the precepts. They are there to help us in life and practice. They are definitely not rules. The only person your violating (don't mean to get heavy), but the only person your violating is your self and your own practice. I think it's good to get an idea of how the precepts actually work in our day to day/moment to moment experience.
We can choose to do absolutely anything. We can choose pursue any action that we want. However, there are certain things that lead to a more balanced lifestyle, that are more in tune with Buddhist practice.
Part of it's seeing that we're not perfect, and how certain things effect our Bodymind, clarity etc..
Brewing beer for the better good. Hmmm...can't really see it. However, it's up to you. Some people are beer connoisseurs. Some people go to the liquor mart and by cheap bottle of aftershave substitute until they can afford their next bottle.
So depending on your clientele, their motives and what not, I would say that beer brewer might be ok. Of course it depends on you really.
Ikkyu was no stranger in that sense, but we shouldn't look to Ikkyu for all our answers.
I'm a bit of a beer connoisseur...and so I'd be brewing aimed at that crowd.
Not that you can't be a fancy-beer-drunk, but it's harder.
You may wish to read the several fine readings, and the good discussion, from during our Precepts/Jukai preparations. "Intoxication" has more to it than meets the eye ... There are more ways to intoxicate oneself and others than literally selling liquor (which, by the way, I personally do not dissaprove of ... IF IN MODERATION and if not mixed with Zazen or operating heavy machinery).Originally Posted by disastermouse
It's not exactly brewing beer, but you gotta see this Buddhist temple built from beer bottles.
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/10 ... ottles.php
The little lady and I ate at a new restaurant in Lafayette, IN this afternoon- "9 Irish Brothers"... and I had the best Guinness on tap I've ever had the pleasure of drinking... Chet, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on stout, as I have only had 2 good samples, Guinness and a custom brew at Rock Bottom in Indianapolis. As for Heineken, their bottles make a pretty temple, but the liquid that came out of them leaves something to be desired, IMHO ( :wink: )
Murphy's and Belhaven are both better stouts.
If you like stouts, you'd probably also like porters - in which case I heartily recommend Samuel Adams Honey Porter.
If you want to go by styles, here's my top recommendations so far:
Stout - Murphy's or Belhaven. Left Hand Milk Stout is a close second.
Porter - Samuel Adams Honey Porter
IPA (India Pale Ale) - Big Sky IPA, followed closely by Stone 'Ruination'
Belgian Dark Strong Ale - Unibroue Maudite (everything Unibroue makes is excellent, and you can find them anywhere nationally - they are a Canadian brewer)
Pilsner - Trumer Pils (Victory 'Prima Pils' is highly rated, but I haven't tried it yet)
Double Bock - Spaten Optimator (great beer and not very expensive)
American Macro (Bud, Miller, etc) - Pabst Blue Ribbon
Lambic - Lindeman's Framboise (Raspberry) Lambic
Altbier - Schmalt's Alt
Brown Ale - Big Sky 'Moosedrool'
There are more, but that's a good start.
I'll definitely seek out the two recommended stouts...
I've never had a Sam Adams I didn't like...
I like a pale ale like Rolling Rock in the hottest part of summer...
Prefer Budweiser over PBR...
Haven't had much luck with the other varieties of ale, though customs from microbrewries have a better reputation- just need to get out there and sample them, I guess (in moderation, of course! :lol: )
If you like the stouts, try getting them in the 'nitro can' with the widget. Basically, if you find either of these - Murphy's or Belhaven - in a can at all, it'll be a widget-pint-nitro can. The nitro imparts extremely tiny bubbles that make the beer taste and feel extra-smooth.Originally Posted by Tobiah
If you want a good high ABV (alcohol by volume) stout, try 'Rasputin Russian Imperial Stout'. That'll put some hair on your chest.
If you like Rolling Rock, try New Belgium Sunshine Wheat (I don't like New Belgium, but it's a popular brewery - skip the 'Fat Tire' - there are better browns out there). You might also like a Belgian White - skip the Blue Moon and go straight to Hoegaarden or Southampton Double White.
How do you feel about hops? Dark beers like porters and stouts actually have a lot of hops, but don't taste as bitter because they are balanced by all the malt. Paler ales with high hop ingredient ratios have that familiar bitter taste.
As for Bud vs. PBR, have a friend hook you up with a blind taste-test - you might be surprised at what you like once the brands are ambiguous. Always drink from the glass and not the can when you taste-test - get as much of the metallic taste out of the beer as possible. That goes quadruple regarding the 'nitro-can' beers I mentioned above. You NEVER drink those from the can.
Fill me in on what other beers you like and I can suggest 'adventurous' alternatives that might expand your palate a little without totally repulsing it.
The only thing that jumps to mind right now is my list of Mexican favorites: Corona, Pacifica, XX Lager... I tried a Chili Beer once and it took me days to recover the full use of my taste buds!
Those are all 'American Adjunct Lagers' except for the Dos Equis - that's a Vienna Lager. The best easily found example of a Vienna Lager is Samuel Adams Boston Lager.Originally Posted by Tobiah
As for American Adjunct Lagers? Budweiser and Pabst....but I'd like to let you expand your palate beyond that. I think that maybe you should start with a Samuel Adams sampler - either a six-pack (2 bottles of three different beers) or a 12-pack (four bottles of three different beers). Find some styles you think you might like. Samuel Adams doesn't make a crappy beer. They don't always make the best examples of a given style, and some styles they never make or only rarely make, but they make good, upstanding examples of the beers they do make.
Otherwise, see if you can find a place that lets you do 'mixed sixes' and put one of each style in yr six: IPA (India Pale Ale), Heffeweizen, Pilsner (Pils, or Pilsener), Dopplebock (Double Bock), English Pale Ale (Old Speckled Hen, Boddington's Pub Ale, or Bass Ale), and a porter of some kind.
I've tried a lot of the beers you've mentioned. Thanks for starting this thread.
I don't brew beer, but I enjoy drinking it in moderation. I also confess to having tried meditation after a beer or two. It didn't work too well.
I'd like to share a few favorites here:
STOUTS: Blackout Stout from Great Lakes Brewery in Cleveland, OH. Samuel Smith's Oatmeal Stout. Chocolate Indulgence from Brewery Ommegang near Cooperstown, N.Y. (I was very skeptical about the latter one, but tried it because I've enjoyed every other beer I've had from Ommegang. There's a little rush of chocolate in the aftertatse, but prior to that it's all stout and very good.)
PORTERS: Geary's London Porter. Edmund Fitzgerald Porter from Great Lakes Brewery. Samuel Smith's Tadcaster Porter.
PALE ALES: Samuel Smith's Pale Ale is my favorite.
LAMBICS: Lindeman's Kriek Lambic, or Liefman's Kriek Lambic. Ommegang makes an outstanding beer called Three Philosphers that includes some kriek (Belgian lambic aged on whole cherries in oak barrels; I have a large bottle cellaring as we speak)
HEFE-WIEZEN: My favorite wheat beer is Shiner Hefe-Wiezen, brewed in Texas. I love the citrus snap on this stuff, and it is excellent for hot summer days.
Others I like include Anchor Steam Beer and Anchor Liberty Ale, Harpoon's Celtic Ale, Geary's Old Hampshire Ale, Ommegang's Rare Vos and Hennepin.
There are many more I could name -- and probably will as time goes by. I have to disagree with you about Sam Adams never making a crappy beer, though. I enjoy almost all of their products, but I did not like the Cherry Wheat or the Blackberry Witbier. Both were too thin and undrinkable, to me.
Nice to make your acquaintance here!
About the Cherry Wheat and Blackberry Wit - you know that these and non-hefe wheat beers are typically 'thinner', right? I mean, are there other fruit wits that you like that would compare (not counting lambics)?Originally Posted by ZenYen
Interesting that you like Anchor Steam - it's one of only two beers that I had to throw away (the other being a misguided 'Wild Blue' purchase). I've been meaning to try a different Cali Common, but they are harder to find outside of the region.
I've stayed away from Ommegang mostly due to size/price issues. Belgians are so strong (typically) that I won't purchase a big bottle unless I have someone to share it with - and the girls (fellow travel RNs) with which I hang are not exactly beer nerds (barring one). I keep almost picking up 'Three Philosophers' though, and I will now almost certainly do so after your endorsement.
I don't know why I haven't picked up Samuel Smith's stuff either. It's usually available, but for some reason, I keep passing it by. If I think about it, I have to admit that I tend to pass by Browns, Abbeys, and Belgians - as the 'fancier' beers I drank before I started really getting into beer were Newcastle (brown), Chimay (Abbey), and Maudite (Dark Belgian). The other styles were all new to me, and some of them still are. I just had my first 'Berlinner Weiss' (New Glarus) - and I love the style, although it's not easy to find.
I'm going to have to try your faves! You've chosen what are known to be quality beers that I just haven't tried yet (for the most part) - particularly the Samuel Smith stuff. Is Sam Smith Pale really your favorite Pale? I ask because it seems to be the style that has the largest number of brewers brewing it.
Shiner's easy to find here, but I've just never been too crazy about their Bock (on tap), and so I've not gotten any of the others either.
Chet i would love to try your beer
if you ever send a bottle my way to israel i would cherish it
as for beer... i want to ask everyone.
what kind of beer do you drink? and if you drink something else what do you drink?
i personally love Guinness, its the best and pretty much the only thing i just love... if a pub has no Guinness i might leave or if im with friends and they insist on staying i would usually drink a local Israeli dark lager beer ca;;ed goldstar, failing that i will drink tuborg.
as for other thing i am a very big fan of cognacs, calvados, and malt whiskey... these are drink that should be enjoyed in moderation as drinking to much actually ruins the enjoyment of it since one should savor these drinks.
my favorite malt is laphroaig.
Gassho, Dojin the drunkard.
Outside of beer, I like a good Gin, Absinthe (something authentic and typically pricey), and Akvavit. I can't stand whiskey or bourbon of any kind - I drank too much of it as a teenager and it just doesn't go down well.Originally Posted by Dojin
All things in moderation, and without attachments. And never behind the wheel.
And, of course, if someone has a problem with addiction ... "moderation" may mean Zero.
Gassho, J (party pooper)
Chet: Yeah, fruit wheats do tend to be thinner than other beers, and thin is a turnoff for me when it comes to beer. I thought the Sam Adams beers I mentioned were thin even by fruit wit standards, but maybe it's just me.
I tried a Wild Blue once. Never again.
I toured the Ommegang brewery a few years ago. Good people, good beer. I hope you like the Three Phils.
I'm right there with you on Newcastle and Chimay ... and thanks for the tip on Maudite. I have not tried that one.
And yeah, Sam Smith's pale is my favorite. It has a bit of butterscotch taste in the finish that I just really like. I like Sierra Nevada's Pale Ale, too.
I agree with you about Shiner Bock. I've heard people rave about it, but it pales compared to other bocks I've tried. It's not bad, and if you've got a bottle I'll have one, too ... but it's not a great bock. It is Lance Armstrong's beer of choice, though, and that might have something to do with its popularity. For my money, Shiner's hefe is a standout. They add some lemon and orange peel near the end of the boil and achieve a citrus snap that is not overwhelming, but it is definitely there. I like it a lot.
Anyway, let me know when you findf a new beer and I'll do the same for you.
Jundo: Your timely reminder regarding moderation is appreciated -- and, in my case, heeded!
Here in Ireland (and I think in the UK too) just about all drink comes with the manufacturer's koan:
Enjoy alcohol responsibly