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Thread: No hands, No Legs, No birds

  1. #1

    No hands, No Legs, No birds

    I have just finished sitting Zazen in the morning.

    As I was sitting it seemed to me my hands just disappeared, and i dont mean they were not there. but they simply did not matter, i felt them but didnt feel them, they were out of my mind. after about 25 minutes of sitting i began to lose feeling in my legs ( this was quite real since they have fallen asleep sometime ago ). i realized at that moment that there are no legs to feel or not feel. and its all the same. i just dropped all idea of legs falling asleep and kept sitting.

    outside i was aware of sounds for most of my sitting, there was some music playing far a way, birds singing, someone working with power tools, the hum of the computers fan.
    i heard each sound and didnt register much of it. it was just there... suddenly i started to notice each and every sound, the birds were all there was and the rest didnt matter, or it was the music, or power tools... it was all there was in the world. it came to me i looked at it in a very limited way. so i just dropped it all again. and all sounds came to me i herd it all at the same time, and there was no difference between them and in some sense me. everything was everything else! and i just sat.... as the bell rang i Gasshoed and stood up packed my zafu and went on with my day... the thing that amazed me most of all was the subtlety of this experience. it was like it didnt really matter. it happened, it was mind altering or life changing... it was just what it was.
    nothing special.

    Gassho, Daniel Dojin Sherman.

  2. #2

    Re: No hands, No Legs, No birds

    Careful when using a knife though. OK? (ie. chopping vegetables)

    W

  3. #3

    Re: No hands, No Legs, No birds

    Quote Originally Posted by Dojin
    I have just finished sitting Zazen in the morning.

    As I was sitting it seemed to me my hands just disappeared, and i dont mean they were not there. but they simply did not matter, i felt them but didnt feel them, they were out of my mind. after about 25 minutes of sitting i began to lose feeling in my legs ( this was quite real since they have fallen asleep sometime ago ). i realized at that moment that there are no legs to feel or not feel. and its all the same. i just dropped all idea of legs falling asleep and kept sitting.

    outside i was aware of sounds for most of my sitting, there was some music playing far a way, birds singing, someone working with power tools, the hum of the computers fan.
    i heard each sound and didnt register much of it. it was just there... suddenly i started to notice each and every sound, the birds were all there was and the rest didnt matter, or it was the music, or power tools... it was all there was in the world. it came to me i looked at it in a very limited way. so i just dropped it all again. and all sounds came to me i herd it all at the same time, and there was no difference between them and in some sense me. everything was everything else! and i just sat.... as the bell rang i Gasshoed and stood up packed my zafu and went on with my day... the thing that amazed me most of all was the subtlety of this experience. it was like it didnt really matter. it happened, it was mind altering or life changing... it was just what it was.
    nothing special.

    Gassho, Daniel Dojin Sherman.
    Aren't sittings like that wonderful? Of course, all sittings are wonderful in their way ... but such times are wonderful.

    But the wisest part of the story ...

    .... as the bell rang i Gasshoed and stood up packed my zafu and went on with my day ... it was just what it was.
    nothing special.


    Gassho, Jundo

  4. #4

    Re: No hands, No Legs, No birds

    thank you Jundo, it really was just like that.
    and it was the best part

    Gassho, Daniel.

    P.s.

    Will I'll do my best

  5. #5
    Senior Member AlanLa's Avatar
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    Re: No hands, No Legs, No birds

    This "no big deal" thread deserves to be left as no big deal, so pardon me as I grow it into a bigger deal.

    WHY do we make those moments a big deal? WHY do we need to label it, search for it, make a goal of it, etc. when the whole point of those moments seem just the opposite? What is it in our psyches that can''t leave that one-ness alone? I had a similar experience to Daniel some months ago, and it was no big deal at the time: pure pfft, nice, interesting, and that's all. I got up and went about my day more aware than usual, but that's all. Then, over a period of days or so, I turned it into a big deal that really cheapened the one-ness of it by making it more than it ever was in the first place. The result of making it a big deal was that I ended up being LESS aware than usual. :?

  6. #6

    Re: No hands, No Legs, No birds

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanLa
    This "no big deal" thread deserves to be left as no big deal, so pardon me as I grow it into a bigger deal.

    WHY do we make those moments a big deal? WHY do we need to label it, search for it, make a goal of it, etc. when the whole point of those moments seem just the opposite? What is it in our psyches that can''t leave that one-ness alone? I had a similar experience to Daniel some months ago, and it was no big deal at the time: pure pfft, nice, interesting, and that's all. I got up and went about my day more aware than usual, but that's all. Then, over a period of days or so, I turned it into a big deal that really cheapened the one-ness of it by making it more than it ever was in the first place. The result of making it a big deal was that I ended up being LESS aware than usual. :?
    I like your description there in the middle, "...pure pfft, nice, interesting..." and someday I will probably have the same reaction- however, being relatively new at this, just the noticing of something is a big deal, simply because its new. Once it has become common, it will lose its newness. I loved my new cell phone when I got it, because I'd waited months for the price to come down, and I finally brought it home, and it was a big deal. Now, Pfft, whatever- its a phone. I think these weird experiences are the same.

    gassho

  7. #7
    Senior Member AlanLa's Avatar
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    Re: No hands, No Legs, No birds

    Interesting theory, Tobiah. But when we get a gadget there is usually this immediate gee whiz factor that then fades down over time, whereas with one-ness experiences there is no gee whiz factor at first but it then grows over time. And then after a while it fades over time also, just like you said.

    One similarity is that whole industries are created around this phenomenon. Some branches (and people) of Buddhism market the whole fireworks of enlightenment, but even when they don't people buy into it with these ideas. Where do we get these ideas? It's just like how the cellphone makers market how life will be perfect with this phone. We know it's not really true for the phone, so why do we think it will be true for Buddhism?

  8. #8

    Re: No hands, No Legs, No birds

    We know it's not really true for the phone, so why do we think it will be true for Buddhism?
    I don't think it will be- as I've studied and read and listened, my observation that there's no goal has grown right along with my general knowledge of all things Buddhist. I have conceptions and notions and delusions, and because of what I'm learning, I now know this, whereas before I did not. I have new ways of relating to the world around me, and as new concepts and perceptions arise, I see them for the first time. The other day I saw a squirrel in my front yard, and I watched the squirrel as a Buddhist zazen practitioner for the first time, and that squirrel was the most complex, amazing, dextrous, brown and hairy squirrel I have ever seen! At the same time, pfft- its just a squirrel. I know this, but it was still a surprising and memorable thing to experience. I planted some seeds and live plants in the garden yesterday with my wife, something I've done many times before, but I was conscious of the potential for life in each thing I touched- I know the garden is going to be different this year because my attitude is different. I've never paid attention to the seeds before!

    So yes, I'm having first-time experiences and the wonder of it all gets me sometimes.

    And no, I don't think I'm building up to some mega-event of mind-blowing fireworks. I'm just being alive and noticing the fact.

    Hope that explains things a little better!

    gassho

  9. #9

    Re: No hands, No Legs, No birds

    I agree with both of you.

    the truth is i just wanted to share it with all of you and i havent posted much so i just felt like doing it.
    and besides it is nice to share things like that even though it is not a big deal.... it is a big small deal... and who can i really share my practice with if not with you? it really is a sangha


    Jundo, thanks for treeleaf!!!
    keep up the great work...

    Gassho,
    Dojin ( the news correspondent from the middle east ).

  10. #10

    Re: No hands, No Legs, No birds

    I agree with all of you!

    In our practice we encounter many flavors, many feelings, insights and perspectives ... many "Ah ha!" moments too.

    Without those, our way would be much poorer.

    I think that, in our practice, we should cherish all of them, not get caught by any of them, keep on with our hike forward. We should also discern which perspectives have real worth and which do not or not so much. Otherwise, it is just like spending all our life in the ice cream store, eating nothing but cherry ice cream ... delicious, but everything in moderation and in its time.

    Eat nothing but cherry ice cream, and you know where you will end up!

    But, how much poorer life would be without Cherry Ice Cream!

    Gassho, Jundo

    PS - I want a cell phone with an "instant enlightenment" feature! 8)

  11. #11

    Re: No hands, No Legs, No birds

    pfft- its just a squirrel
    Careful with the "pfft-" Tobiah. Nothings really pfft-.

    And most things we think are sacred, are what they are.

    A transmission beyond words. Whew.

    Gassho

  12. #12

    Re: No hands, No Legs, No birds

    I want a cell phone with an "instant enlightenment" feature!
    I thought they already had something like that in Japan.

    W

  13. #13

    Re: No hands, No Legs, No birds

    Careful with the "pfft-" Tobiah. Nothings really pfft-.
    Are you talking about avoiding dualism? Pfft vs. No Pfft?

  14. #14

    Re: No hands, No Legs, No birds

    Quote Originally Posted by Tobiah
    Careful with the "pfft-" Tobiah. Nothings really pfft-.
    Are you talking about avoiding dualism? Pfft vs. No Pfft?

    you should ask your self is it pfft? or maybe its tffp?

    or is it really the same thing?

  15. #15

    Re: No hands, No Legs, No birds

    Are you talking about avoiding dualism? Pfft vs. No Pfft?
    Just what it says. Nothings really pfft. I don't know about dualism. Just accept stuff as it is. You know?

    How can I say it? Can't really. Don't want to give the impression that I know something. It's just not pfft is all.

    I was jut pointing to the middle way. That's all. Not discarding anything as inferior or unimportant, and just accepting stuff as it is.

    When the sun sets, the sun sets. When we feel gratitude for the sun setting, then there's gratitude. When we feel something special, well, it's just that feeling. No need to add anything to it. The more I talk about, the more it seems to wander into speculative, analytical territory. Missing the spontaneity, ordinariness, or naturalness of it. Anyway, so many words.

    Gassho (don't know sh*t)

    Will

  16. #16

    Re: No hands, No Legs, No birds

    Just what it says. Nothings really pfft. I don't know about dualism. Just accept stuff as it is. You know?
    Yeah, I see now. And it makes more sense, since I don't know about dualism either.

  17. #17
    Senior Member AlanLa's Avatar
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    Re: No hands, No Legs, No birds

    OK, I get it now. The simple answer to my question of WHY is Desire. We have this experience of oneness and go, "fine, cool" or whatever, and carry on because it's no big deal. But then after a while, if it doesn't happen again, we Want to have it again, thus making it a big deal, and so begins the cycle of desire and suffering. Like many questions I ask, I had the answer all along. I just needed something to help me realize it.

    Thanks for sharing, Daniel. You planted tomAtoes and got tomAHtoes, or something like that.

  18. #18

    Re: No hands, No Legs, No birds

    Alan, you got it right... its somewhere in between i guess.

    no need for long answers... so i will just gassho.

    so Gassho to you all,
    Daniel, Gasshoing 'till the cows come home (and eat all the tomatoestomahtoes)

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