Seeking Sangha Views: Moving to BELIEFNET.COM

[robert]

Hi!

Just reiterating what others have said, Jundo, but thanks for discussing it with us bus-riders first. I think it all depends on perspective. If I were a long-standing sangha member who'd been sitting with y'all for years, I'd probably feel a bit cautious about opening the floodgates. As a relative newcomer, I can see the merits of reaching out to a wider audience. There must be many people out there who have few opportunities to practice with a (non-virtual) group. Also, are we sure the "serious seekers" are necessarily people who wouldn't visit Beliefnet? In some cases, the opposite could be true. Some serious practitioners may actually spend relatively little time combing through sites on the web, where the potential for distraction is high, and when they do go online might just visit a few relatively high-profile sites.

Gassho,
Rob

[Jundo]

Hi!

Just reiterating what others have said, Jundo, but thanks for discussing it with us bus-riders

Hey, it is all one bus, and I am just the cute Japan bus guide.



The driver of the bus is named "Bud Buddha".

Gassho, Jundo



Philip ... I promise not to turn our Sangha into a Fast Food Zendo! However, you remind me that I haven't sat any McDonald's Zazen for awhile ... All the old sittings have gone into the waste container, with the burger wraps, used cups and straws.

http://treeleafzen.blogspot.com/search?q=mcd%27s


Gassho, McJundo

[robert]

Brad Warner may hang out with Suicide Girls, but Treeleaf has Bodhisattva Bart, Paris Hilton, Ronald McDharma, and Buddhism tour group cuties! I think you may be winning the prize for most expedient means...

[clyde]

Jundo;

Congrats! Mazel Tov!

It sounds to me like a wonderful opportunity for you to share the Dharma. BUT . . . "guided Zen meditation"?! That is a BAD (and misleading) description for what you teach and practice. OR I'm badly and sadly off.

No matter . . . I hope you share the Dharma with many more sentient beings.

clyde

[Longdog]

Well I thought I'd better go and have a nose at beliefnet.com and my god it's awful. Saccarin sweet and pink and fluffy, tips for managing your vices over xmas, positive quotes of the day and .... :roll:

Sorry, may be I'm too English for that :lol:

Hope it works out beneficial anyway.

In gassho, Kev

[Tb]

Hi.

Yes, it seems a bit "unserious" sometimes, but if we're not there to tech them "seriousness", who will (no pun intended...)?

May the force be with you
Tb

[Gregor]

Let them call it what they will. Yes, "Guided Zen Meditation", is a bit silly. But, I'm sure that after Jundo has a chance to explain there will be no doubt that the method he is teaching is the methodless method . . . I have no worries about that!

[Mikey]

Wow. Sorry to chime in late, but I've been very busy getting settled in at my new job.

As others have said, I am just riding the bus - and I trust the driver.

Jundo, in one of your first posts in the thread, you sounded surprised that people enjoyed your little talks before the sitting. I just wanted to jump in and say that I also love them! I don't often get to sit with them, but when I have time, I like to go through and catch up on the talks. They are part of what brought me to the forum and just wanted you to know that I appreciate them - regardless of the schedule or web address.

Gassho,
Mike

[AlanLa]

Jundo, what else can you do but go forth and prosper.
Thank you for letting us along for the journey.

[Jundo]

Hi Guys,

Thank you for the vote of confidence. Looks like, at this point, the move will be around New Years Eve. Nothing much will change but the URL, I anticipate.

Of course, I should mention that the folks at Beliefnet and I have now worked out the details of my new "look" and our new theme ...

What do you think?

[chicanobudista]

Love the new look! :P

BTW....has anyone taken the.....tada!....Belief-O-Matic!Test? :?:

[Jinho]

HI,

My only comment is that I very much believe the daily zazen webcast should continue. The idea that people will be "overwhelmed" is patently incorrect since most people will not view it every day. There is no requirement to view it every day, it is not an ongoing soap opera where if you miss one you've lost the story line. People will tune in when they feel like it. But I know for me that when I sit-along, even though we are not in the same room and even that it is prerecorded, the telecast really helps me. The people at FOX do not understand the importance of sitting every day, and the example of Jundo sitting every day, on line, is the BEST encouragement for other people. Again, this "overwhelmed" thing is a non-starter since everyday participation is not required or even pressured.

thank you for your time,
rowan

[Kevin Solway]

My concern is the advertising. For them, it is a commercial proposition. If your videos prove popular - which is unlikely unless there are pretty girls in them - they'll want to put advertising in the video itself, like they do on youtube.

[Jundo]

Hi Kevin,

Youstream, the video service we use, recently started to place ads in the netcast. That is unrelated to Beliefnet. Nothing we can do, as it is a free service. Best just to overlook the ads.

The only alternative is another service that would cost hundreds of dollars per month ... and since I do not take donations here, we will stick with the free service! 8)

Gassho, J

[chicanobudista]

Hi Kevin,

Youstream, the video service we use, recently started to place ads in the netcast. That is unrelated to Beliefnet. Nothing we can do, as it is a free service. Best just to overlook the ads.

...and so does YouTube.

I help run some email groups. Once in a while, I'll get the complaint about ads in emails msgs. I understand and don't like 'em either. But. As I always state, "If you don't like 'em, I am willing to work on the 'premium' services if folks start forking over $$$ to pay membership fees/etc." I usually never get someone to volunteer. :mrgreen: Back to free!...and all that entails. :P

[Jinho]

Hi Jundo (and all),

My previous reply was rather emphatic about the everyday sit-along, however I UTTERLY and COMPLETELY withdraw it since you have express that the everyday schedule is a problem for you (Jundo) and Treeleaf should not be an undue burden on you.

I am concerned that if there is a "sit everyday" requirement, that new people or just curious people will have nowhere to ask questions, etc. but this is not a problem if they are directed to contact you with their questions?

In a week I will be doing a very long kinhin each morning as I walk 2+ miles to my train to work. Then zazen on the train.

thank you for your time and efforts,
rowan

[Jinho]

Hi again

I think I probably had the most negative, whiny and complaining reaction to this of anyone here. So, after more thought, I just wanted to add that of course, I also support Jundo and will quietly take my seat towards the back of the bus with the rest. I like the forum staying as it is, right here, and I like the 'lawyer' protection as well.

It occured to me that since this is the only place I get out amongst people, really, then how can I begrudge the possibility that a B-Net blog would help other 'invisible, hidden' reclusive people to find the path to zazen, just as I did? Jundo's mission is both noble and passionate, and I really don't see this move as quite the threat to what we have, as I perhaps did at first.

Another mind changed, just for the record--I'm in support.

Gassho, Ann

For what it matters, ditto on what Ann said

with much gratitude,
rowan

[Jundo]

Hi Jundo (and all),

My previous reply was rather emphatic about the everyday sit-along, however I UTTERLY and COMPLETELY withdraw it since you have express that the everyday schedule is a problem for you (Jundo) and Treeleaf should not be an undue burden on you.

I am concerned that if there is a "sit everyday" requirement, that new people or just curious people will have nowhere to ask questions, etc. but this is not a problem if they are directed to contact you with their questions?

Hi Row,

No, the daily sittings are not a "problem" or burden for me. I sit daily anyway. The only "problem" ("challenge" or "reality" may be a better term) is that the internet and Ustream do not cooperate many days. Sometimes the batteries on the laptop just lack the juice to run a mike, camera and internet card cause I forgot to charge them or such (a single netcast takes almost a whole battery)! Sometimes the whole thing crashes my system because of the peculiarities of 'FLASH' or 'JAVA' or whatever it is!

But, we just embrace all that ... take it as it comes.

As I said, the Beliefnet people first felt that 3 or 4 times a week was a better pace for folks anyway, and so suggested that (although I think that I have decided to just put in more "Silent Sittings" and such, where I sit more and talk a bit less, interspersed with talks). Where the internet fails, or there is some other reason, I will just wing it, put a written post that day or something. In fact, looking at the realities of the internet and my computer batteries, the pace should stay about where it has been ... 4 talks a week or so.

There is a "Sit Everyday" aspiration or soft rule ... better than saying "requirement". However, it is a pretty strong aspiration, right up there with tooth brushing and walking the dog (in my view). People can always contact me directly with questions, or post here.

BY THE WAY, I HOPE MORE FOLKS WILL TRY TO MAKE THE LIVE SATURDAY SITTINGS! :evil:

Gassho, Jundo

[Shohei]

BY THE WAY, I HOPE MORE FOLKS WILL TRY TO MAKE THE LIVE SATURDAY SITTINGS! :evil:

Gassho, Jundo

*OFF TOPIC A TAD** the Fair thee warned by me says I
I feel very much like the weak link here as I havent EVER sat live for the weekend or monthly live sittings.

Unfortunately for me until internet reaches a speed over 56k in the woods where i live, Or we(the fam) move, ill not be able to make every saturday commitment to sit the live sittings. Just know im sitting with you regardless of my mug being on the screen (and ill prolly be sitting @ 11pm) but as a wise man once said "drop all thought of here or there, now or then"

I really would like to catch atleast one

Gassho, Dirk

[Yugen]

Dirk,
You are not the only weak link here - I have not attended any of the Saturday sittings in almost a year - with three boys, work and family duties/commitments it has been very difficult. I do now sit mornings (early) and evenings (late) and think of the sangha when I do so. I always aspire to a more structured community practice but... we shall see what the New Year brings.... perhaps a resolution, but I should view yesterdya's netcast first before committing!

I also would like to observe that I sometimes feel not as active as other members of the sangha in that I do not post often. I do visit the website almost every day... and read as many of the postings as I can. I am grateful for the presence and community of those who engage in dialogue... but often am content to just be...

Anyway, as you noted, not necessarily on topic, but thought I would add myself to the "weak link" thread...

Gassho,
Alex

[Jundo]

not "weak" links. SOLID links.

[chicanobudista]

BY THE WAY, I HOPE MORE FOLKS WILL TRY TO MAKE THE LIVE SATURDAY SITTINGS! :evil:

Do I need web cam in my pc to join in? :?:

[Jundo]

BY THE WAY, I HOPE MORE FOLKS WILL TRY TO MAKE THE LIVE SATURDAY SITTINGS! :evil:

Do I need web cam in my pc to join in? :?:

You need a web cam if you want folks to see you seeing other see you being seen (in other words, if you wish to sit on Mebeam ... assuming it is working that day). Just to join in the netcast from Ustream ... no camera is needed.

Gassho, Jundo

[Ryumon]

I haven't been on the forum in a while, and just saw this post. I haven't read the many replies, but my feeling about BeliefNet is that it is a supermarket of spirituality, and attracts people who flit around from one thing or another. It groups together serious traditions with hokey "beliefs", giving all of them the same weight (more or less). I think it would be a very bad idea to be associated with such an organization. In addition, such association, while it may attract more people, may also be negative if BeliefNet gets any negative press. You've already seen how it is to express your ideas on other forums; I think you may have the same problems on BeliefNet.

Just my two eurocents...

Kirk

[Jundo]

... but my feeling about BeliefNet is that it is a supermarket of spirituality...

From last of the 10 Oxherding Pictures ...

10. ENTERING THE MARKET PLACE WITH HELPING HANDS
Barechested, barefooted, he comes into the market place.
Muddied and dust-covered, how broadly he grins!
Without recourse to mystic powers,
withered trees he swiftly brings to bloom!

The gate of his cottage is closed and even the wisest cannot find him. His mental panorama has fmally disappeared. He goes his own way, making no attempt to follow the steps of earlier sages. Carrying a gourd, he strolls into the market; leaning on his staff, he returns home. He leads innkeepers and fleshmongers in the Way of the Buddha.

Translation by Philip Kapleau.

[Longdog]

BY THE WAY, I HOPE MORE FOLKS WILL TRY TO MAKE THE LIVE SATURDAY SITTINGS! :evil:

Gassho, Jundo

Sorry Jundo and the rest of you as others have said, live saturday sitting for me aren't likely to happen. Lots of reasons/excuses depending on your view point, but our only 2 family days, baby and it being in the middle of the afternoon here make it unlikely. I have tried before but the wonders of mebeam were just a pain I wasn't willing to endure. I've also had to remove my webcam as I've been trying to sort out some software conflictions on my computer and it is one of the suspectsalong with my external soundcard :cry:

Not long to the switch over any way eh?

In gassho, Kev

P.S. Jundo did you recieve the little bundle of stiches I sent you some time back? Royal Mail isn't quite what it used to be :roll:

[Jundo]

BY THE WAY, I HOPE MORE FOLKS WILL TRY TO MAKE THE LIVE SATURDAY SITTINGS! :evil:

Gassho, Jundo

Sorry Jundo and the rest of you as others have said, live saturday sitting for me aren't likely to happen. Lots of reasons/excuses depending on your view point, but our only 2 family days, baby and it being in the middle of the afternoon here make it unlikely.

Hi Kev,

I am thinking about some things that can be done to make the live sittings, and other activities, more "user friendly" to our friends in the UK and Europe ... such as switching every other time to a time that would be a morning for you or other convenient time (and inconvenience the Yanks instead). Something like that. Or come up with some other solution.

Please stand by. I need to figure that out and how to implement it.

Gassho, Jundo

[Shindo]

Thanks Jundo - that is thoughtful. However, it is one of those things where you can't please all of the people all of the time. So sharing around some of the pain sounds equitable. You do what feels right & to be honest I can always pick up the recorded verisons at a more convenient time.

Kindest regards

Jools

ps - is there another alternative to Mebeam ? http://www.vwiz.net/ for example - I don't know if it is any more reliable - just a thought

[Undo]

Hello Jundo,

I agree with Jools, with regards to the different timed sittings.
It is a nice idea, but there will always be limitations with time zones as well as it being a one man show. There are always the recordings which deal with that quite well at the moment.

With regard with the move, I fully agree and support the attempt to speak to more people interested in what Soto Zen Buddhism has to say. I do still worry that while there will be new people from beliefnet visit here I think there will also be people who may have done but will be put off with the beliefnet connection and so go elsewhere. I suppose it will be impossible to know those types of numbers and impossible to compare figures. Things have been a little quiet on the forum for a while so maybe that can be the judge.

Either way fingers crossed and good luck

Philip

[Longdog]

Thanks for the consideration too Jundo, but as others have said you can't keep us all happy, but alternating it may not be a bad idea, if not tough on you?

The time it works out here at the moment (afternoon) is in theory ideal, apart from it's the most likely time we have other ties on our time. For the record the best time for me personally would be an evening but it probably works out horrendous for you.

What ever happens I'll continue to just do what I can when I can and look forawrd to your talks where ever in the ether they may be.

In gassho. Kev