Mark Your Calendar: ROHATSU/JUKAI RETREAT in DECEMBER!!

[Jundo]

Hi All,

I had mentioned previously that we would be having a two day intensive "Retreat" as part of our JUKAI preparations, and I would like to combine this with the upcoming traditional ROHATSU (Buddha's Enlightenment Day, December 8th) Sesshin period that is celebrated in Zen monasteries around the world ...

So, I am hereby giving notice that we will be having our intensive retreat over the weekend of:

DECEMBER 6 and 7, 2008!

I have yet to work out the exact schedule and content, as I have to cover several continents and multiple time zones as effectively as possible. However, it will likely encompass all of Saturday and Sunday in most of Europe and North America. You will have the option of joining live or (as I will record each segment for Ustream) following the recorded segments with a few hours (or even days) lag time. However, you should plan on two solid, unbroken days of sitting ... beginning before the sun rises and continuing well after it sets each day.

Although the retreat will be online, it will be done in the traditional manner (as close as I can make it), featuring Oryoki, Samu, Chanting, Kinhin and lots & lots of Zazen! For a taste of what it may be like, please try our half-day retreat here:

http://treeleafzen.blogspot.com/2007/11 ... t-day.html

Okay, more details later ... as the date grows closer.

By the way, the Jukai ceremony itself will be on a day (or perhaps days to suit different people) around the end of the year, probably shortly after the New Year.

Gassho, Jundo

[Shohei]

Marked! And Thank you!
I Might take a day before and after off just to be safe and allow the time for preparation around home too.
I was going to do a 2 day solitary retreat this weekend or next but I may hold off for this instead.

Gassho, Dirk

[Al]

Marked on my calendar, thanks Jundo.

[aikoku tora]

* gets the Velcro wall ready to stick the kids to.. no baby sitter or family? try the acme nanny wall *

marked it, may be tough to be uninterrupted with the kids having no place to go, but it's something I'm still looking forward to.

[rculver]

Weekends from Thanksgiving to New Year's are a no go for me. I'll have to do it in parts if that's okay.

Ron

[Jundo]

Hi Ron,

You should, as much as possible, try to do it all at once. When you can.

Sesshin, long retreats and such should not be broken up. Sit when you can find a couple of days.

Gassho, Jundo

[rculver]

Ok. I'll just have to do it some time after the new year.

Ron

[Jen]

Unfortunately, after pricing nanny walls (tm), I have realized they are out of our budget. My new plan is for Aikoku to have his two days while I watch the kids, then switch. I am sure there will be one or two distractions, but at least I won't be trying to pick the lint out of the velcro suits

[Fugen]

Hi.

Jen, we here (me and emma) have the same "problem" with childcare, we can't get any who can have him for two days. But we tried the last to "chop it up" we did almost everything but the oryoki, and the samu (we did our own version of that one... ) but did it over a period of a couple of days, and it worked fine. Doing it just a couple of hours at a time. I think we actually went on for a longer time, than a "whole day" altogether, but we thought we try it and it worked with everything else...
and we were thinking of doing something of the the same this time, it's more fun doing it together.
those who zazen together stay together...

May the force be with you
Tb

[KellyRok]

I have marked my calendar too! I may have to do this over two days during the week. This is important to me because this will be my first intensive retreat and right in time too (for Jukai that is)!

I will have to reserve my husband for kid duty...and the house may just fall apart for those two days...but all will survive. :lol:

Gassho,
Kelly

[Jundo]

Hi Guys,

Let's give this some creative thought, and see if there is some way to work kids into the Retreat. I think there is. For example, husband and wife take turns, sitting cluster by sitting cluster (a cluster is, for example, 2 or 3 sittings of Zazen and Kinhin, or some activity like a talk or Samu) before a break. So, husband takes first shift while wife sits, wife takes next shift while husband sits, etc. etc.

Since it will be recorded as we go, joinable "on demand", husband and wife can even do the same sittings and activities (like Oryoki) at different times sequentially. Got my point? So, husband sits and does Oryoki while wife watches the kids, then wife does the same Oryoki while husband watches the kids.

MOST IMPORTANT: So long as husband and wife, when watching the kids, stays in mental "retreat mode" ... not turning on the tv or crusing the internet ... all while thinking of watching the kids as "Samu" practice (and "non-doing" the caretaking in the same mindful, achieving without achieving way) ... then I think it is just fine. One hour of "kid sitting" can be equal to one hour of "zafu sitting".

How does that sound?

When I design the sitting schedule, I can try to make it suitable for what I describe.

However, the retreat should still be done all at once over two days, not broken up in bits and pieces over many days.

Gassho, Jundo (a dad ... mom will be watching Leon that weekend at my mother-in-law's house)

[Dosho]

I think it should work fine for me to do it live (or after its been freshly recorded) but it does happen to fall on my wife's birthday (the 7th). Happy b-day honey; can you watch the boy all weekend? Actually my wife is fine with it and we're celebrating her brithday the previous weekend anyway since we'll have babysitters (my parents) over Thanksgiving.

When do you think you'll have the actual schedule Jundo? It would especially help to know how late we'd be going the second day, but I understand if that's something that will take awhile to get settled.

Looking forward to it!

Gassho,
Scott

[Bansho]

Hi,

I'll be (non-)doing the recorded version as well, since I'll be away from home that weekend for a golden anniversary celebration. (I don't think my wife's aunt & uncle would be willing to postpone it for me. :roll: )

Gassho
Ken

[Damian]

I am going to try my best! I am looking forward to a 2 day sit!

Gassho,
Damian

[roky]

sound good -- fortunately, i fly back to why from oakland, ca, on 12/3, just in time -- i envision taking the camper van out to a deserted area (not difficult, since its deserted for at least 100 miles in all directions) -- but for that reason i expect no internet, so no live webcam -- hope thats ok

gassho, bob

[AlanLa]

I can try for that weekend, but it is right at the end of the semester when things tend to be pretty crazy busy. If it doesn't work then, a few weekends later I expect to be completely free so could do the recorded version. My preference would be to do it live, however, as it will be more motivating knowing the simultaneity of it with everyone else. Of course, this is just an empty idea in my head I need to drop.

[Jen]

My preference would be to do it live, however, as it will be more motivating knowing the simultaneity of it with everyone else. Of course, this is just an empty idea in my head I need to drop.

Perhaps it could be helpful for those of us unable to do it at the live time to list when we will be doing it . That way, those of us sitting later can know that they are sitting with others still. We do take refuge in the sangha, after all :wink:

Jenny

[Jundo]

Very nice suggestion, Jen.

I will also make sure we have a special thread set up where people can note that they have completed sitting the retreat, whether then 'now' or at a later 'now' (it will always be 'now' whenever folks sit) and can write about their experiences.

See you then now.

Gassho,

[Yugen]

Dear all,
I do not know that I will be able to set aside 6/7 December either due to work travel. I will probably have to sit for two days during that following week. I think the suggestion of posting when people will be sitting so we "can take refuge in the sangha" is an excellent one....

Gassho,
Alex

[AlanLa]

Jen's suggestion is very good. Doing it that way would take some pressure off feeling a NEED to do it 12/6-7, which would seem to almost defeat the purpose of the retreat in the first place.

[Jundo]

Jen's suggestion is very good. Doing it that way would take some pressure off feeling a NEED to do it 12/6-7, which would seem to almost defeat the purpose of the retreat in the first place.

Yes ... but providing the sitting gets sat.

Everyone should sit retreats from time to time (2 days is a short retreat), and not wait too long. So, even if that weekend is not possible, sit the retreat very soon after. Do not procrastinate!

Gassho, J

PS - By the way, some folks have written to ask if another retreat can be sat in place of ours. Yes, for sure. So long as some sitting gets sat!

Of course, I would love to see as many Treeleafers as possible join in our December sitting. Please try. :P

[KellyRok]

Hello Jundo and all,

I think incorporating kid duty in the retreat is a great idea. I won't be able to do the live retreat, but since both my children are in school, and my husband works day shift...I'm going to do my retreat on Monday and Tuesday, Dec. 8,9. I will have to get my kids off the bus (and on the bus in the mornings) in the afternoons, but then only have an hour until my hubby would be home to take over. I usually spend that hour hearing about my kids' days and doing homework. I think that could be considered an hour of Samu, Jundo please let me know if that is okay. I have been teaching my children about sitting zazen, so maybe I could have them sit with me for like 5 minutes.

Jenny - Thank you for your suggestion! I too think it is a very good idea to know when others will be sitting.

I am really looking forward to this retreat.

Take care all and have a great week,
Kelly

[Undo]

Thanks Jundo, I hope to do the live retreat but will need to confirm nearer the time if that's ok?
Anyone else have nervous butterfly in the stomach feeling? :shock:

take care,

Philip

[Jundo]

I'm going to do my retreat on Monday and Tuesday, Dec. 8,9. I will have to get my kids off the bus (and on the bus in the mornings) in the afternoons, but then only have an hour until my hubby would be home to take over. I usually spend that hour hearing about my kids' days and doing homework. I think that could be considered an hour of Samu, Jundo please let me know if that is okay.

Hi Kelly,

It absolutely is 'Samu', although whether it is or not truly depends on you:

If you teach and listen to your kids with stillness amid the chaos, achieving and accomplishing what needs to be done but with no thought of achievement (that is "non-achievement"), being present in that moment with you kids with no thought that you should be or would rather be doing something else ...

... that's Samu.

Yes, you can use such activities as your "Samu" periods for the retreat. Also, if you are doing the recorded version, there will be great flexibility to do the "Samu" when you need to.

Gassho, Jundo

[KellyRok]

Hello all,

Jundo, thank you for your reply. Most days I try to be mindful at these times and enjoy hearing about my boys' day at school. I will make an extra effort to be still during this time of my retreat.

Thank you for allowing us this flexibility!

Gassho,
Kelly

[roky]

for those folks who don't have family/work commitments, it is also possible to sit more than 2 days, right? -- would anyone else be interested in doing that? -- say 4/5 days? -- when the time comes, we could block it out on the zen hall scheduler, though i cant use the webcam during the retreat, no internet where i'd be going

just a word of encouragement -- its not going to be impossibly difficult, just difficult -- i've seen very ordinary people do retreats of much greater length, and they survived -- having a sangha makes it possible -- the silent support is essential -- alone i'm done in a few days, but with others, even in cyberspace, i can go much longer

one improvement i'd suggest for the scheduler would be the option to add more names to a time slot -- so people could record their intent to join others who are sitting at that time -- more group sitting

gassho, bob

[Dosho]

Hey Bob,

I don't have unlimited time but more than most! I probably would sit some extra times after my two day retreat is over if I know other people are doing theirs. And I agree it would be great if more than one person could sign up at a time with the scheduler. I'm really going to try and sit using the zendo again either tomorrow or next week.

Gassho,
Scott

[roky]

scott -- ron and i were just talking about the same thing, using the zen hall more

as far as the retreat, i'm definitely going to do an extended one -- i'll be gone from 11/25 til 12/3, with one of my kids, but you can just assume that as long as you want to sit, i'll be sitting, unless you want to go more than a week, -- its best if i extend the tail end, rather than the beginning, as i'll be returning home to my wife on the third, should really hang out together before the retreat

one cool thing is that if you sit til, say, 9 pm, it will only be 7 here -- i really poop out in the evening -- but i'm good in the a.m.

gassho, bob

[Jinho]

for those folks who don't have family/work commitments, it is also possible to sit more than 2 days, right? -- would anyone else be interested in doing that? -- say 4/5 days? -- when the time comes, we could block it out on the zen hall scheduler, though i cant use the webcam during the retreat, no internet where i'd be going

gassho, bob

And to all Treeleafers, remember that not just us, but thousands of people will be sitting rohatsu sesshin with us, all over the world, as we will be sitting with them, all together, no separation (as Jundo would say).

It would get great for me if the schedule could be posted on treeleaf. Although I can get another sangha's retreat schedule and use that.

I am thinking of going to rohatsu at Jikoji in California, USA. But I also want to do a private retreat at home, perhaps before as preparation. It is very stressful for me to be in a group, even at a sesshin, so I have to plan this.

gassho,
rowan

[Jundo]

Hi Ros,

I am working on the exact sitting schedule now, but they will be full days ... before sunrise (or thereabouts) to late after sundown on December 6 and 7.

Gassho, Jundo

[rculver]

Jundo,
For those of us unable to do the full retreat at the same time it is "Live", may we still sit with the group during some of the zazen periods?

Ron

[Jundo]

Jundo,
For those of us unable to do the full retreat at the same time it is "Live", may we still sit with the group during some of the zazen periods?

Ron

Hi Ron,

Of course, folks can drop in and out, and sit with the group during just some periods. I look forward to that. You can just stop in to show (and sit) your support!

But at some point, folks should attempt the Retreat straight through, non-stop, for the full two days. The "on demand" version will let everyone do that.

Gassho, J

[rculver]

OK. Thanks

Ron

[Gregor]

Hello,

I've penciled it in, I think it'll work out just fine. I like the fact that we are bundling this into Rohatsu, good thinking Jundo!

Hopefully, we'll all be able to work out a time to do this.

[rculver]

My wife said she would take the boys to the in-laws in early January and give me a couple of days to do the retreat. Now all I have to do is work it into my work schedule.

Ron

[Shindo]

Ok Jundo - thank you for the opportunity to be involved in something as daunting as this.
I have had a long chat with my wife and we have agreed that with some preparation the week before & me taking over the spare bedroom this should be doable. I have asked her & the children to just go about their normal routine - I couldn't bear for them to have their weekend dominated by me & to have to tip-toe about.
Anyway, count me in & I look forward to the challenge. If anything unexpected comes up I will let you know.
Kind regards & thanks again
Jools

[Gregor]

This is going to seem like a silly question . . . I don't mean it to be, just curious that's all.

What is the point of a long/extended time for meditation ? Obviously, it's tradition and that may be a good enough answer itself --- I don't think it's because we are pushing for Kensho or the like. Perhaps it's merely because without practicing a lot Zazen we cannot know what it is about.

Maybe we'll answer this question for ourselves this December?

[Eika]

This is going to seem like a silly question . . . I don't mean it to be, just curious that's all.

What is the point of a long/extended time for meditation ? Obviously, it's tradition and that may be a good enough answer itself --- I don't think it's because we are pushing for Kensho or the like. Perhaps it's merely because without practicing a lot Zazen we cannot know what it is about.

Maybe we'll answer this question for ourselves this December?

My 2 cents:
My little three day retreat last summer showed me the value of immersive practice. I wouldn't say it is a better or worse way to practice, but it is more intense and challenging. The challenge for me was simply resistance. Learning to simply sit, hour after hour was really hard for me to do. The first part of the first day was great and I thought "This is going to be sooo cool." But then the resistance started and for several zazen periods it was all I could do not to focus on the thoughts in my head telling me to get up. Those thoughts went away after a while . . . the leg pain didn't. So each obstacle that was removed revealed another obstacle that my clever brain could use against me. It was actually quite funny at times. By the third day, most of that was gone . . . almost like I had to give up on "winning" those battles. After that, there was for several days after a really different vibe about my experience with the world. Not really clearer, just more OK with things in general. So, part of me really dreads the retreat because I know that resistance will come back in full force, but another part of me will be glad to have the excuse to sit long enough to let that stuff burn itself out. To use a really strange analogy, it seems a bit like being nauseous. I always really dread and resist the urge to vomit when I am sick, but once I finally give in and go through it, I feel so much better. I kind of give up and let my body fix itself the way it knows how to and then the world and me are back on speaking terms . . . I know, that's weird.

Anyway, I got a great deal out of the 3 days in July and I am looking forward to our 2 days in December.

Gassho,
Bill

[Jundo]

Thank you, Bill.

So well said. Yes!

Yes, Zazen is a chance to vomit up all the garbage in our heads! That is great! Really so!

A long retreat is a qualitatively different experience. I wish ours were a week or so, not just two days. Okay, here is my silly analogy of the moment:

Zen Practice is like learning to sail the sloop on the mind ocean (I guess I have moved on from canoes and rivers! :wink: )

One can take out one's boat for an hour here and there to putter around the harbor, and read lots of sailing magazines ... but one does not truly know sailing until one spends a few days and nights alone on the wide and stormy inner seas, just you and you alone.

Gassho and Good Sailing, J

[Gregor]

Yes, what you both have said about Zazen needing time to burn out the garbage in our head -- makes a lot of sense, I've experienced this myself when sitting for more extended times.

And -- then there was my last sit, where all I thought about for twenty minutes was wanting a glass of water . . . I suppose salty "chinese" takout is not a good pre-zazen meal.

take care guys,

Greg

[roky]

ok, here's my ad for retreats:

32 years ago i did my first retreat, a 2 week one -- on the fourth day of the retreat, my life was changed, in a very profound way -- i doubt that this could have happened with just my daily sitting, or at least would have taken many years to occur

many folks who've sat retreats come to feel that once a year an intensive period of mediation is very helpful -- i definitely agree -- just to get away from thinking about life, and instead, for a while, experiencing it, is good

gassho, bob

[jcsuperstar]

One can take out one's boat for an hour here and there to putter around the harbor, and read lots of sailing magazines ... but one does not truly know sailing until one spends a few days and nights alone on the wide and stormy inner seas, just you and you alone.

Gassho and Good Sailing, J

this is so true. i know from experence living in thai temples that living a life of meditation for hours a day ,day after day ,ones meditation is quite different from when one just sits at home once a day. it's very hard sometimes to be that alone with yourself. there's nowhere to run!