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Thread: Speech

  1. #1

    Speech

    Dedicated to Stephanie.

    You know. I'd like to think that this forum is a place where we can show respect to each other and discuss things openly without the need to get defensive. I guess those who are "in the know" like to keep that to themselves. No Bodhisattvas around here.

    Did you know that when you post a comment that is snarky, sarcastic, or just plane rude, it has effects. THIS IS NOT OUR PLACE. Jundo set it up, and we should atleast try to respect it. What's up?

    That's wrong.

    Oh really why's that?

    Well I'm not going to tell you.

    Why?

    Because.

    Because why?

    Because.

    Is the world against you or are you against the world? I'm sometimes confused by comments like that. It takes the teaching of monastery and practice community and says it's basically bullshit. Well, that's a grand statement. Back it up. If you can't then shut up and keep your poems to yourself.

    Gassho

  2. #2
    'Jundo's House' is everybody's place too

    Events of a moment ago are "water under the bridge". In sitting Zazen side by side, elbow to elbow, we all sometimes bump elbows now and then.

    We all need constant reminders to treat each other well.

    As Linda said so nicely on the other thread ...

    Each of my actions will affect the world for good, bad or neutrally. So, I really need to be mindful of what I do. My good or bad actions may affect me directly or not. But the totality of everyones actions will affect us all, one way or another.

    Gassho, J

  3. #3
    Stephanie
    Guest
    Believe it or not, I'm trying.

    And whatever you perceive as "snark" is not directed at you, Jundo, or anyone else here. It comes from my own doubt and frustration with practice and Buddhist culture in general. What I'm really trying to do is to put all that out there and say, "Help me with this." I would love if someone could help alleviate this doubt and the anger and disappointment that come with it. I cannot even tell you the heights of "Great Faith" to which I ascended last semester, and now I find myself back in the gutter, devoid of nearly all faith. It sucks. I would love to be feeling all lovey-dovey and "No problem, man," right now, but I'm not.

    I understand my personality might be a bit 'prickly' here at times. If it really is perceived that my style of interaction, my questions and concerns, etc., are disrupting the community, I would move on with minimal hard feelings. My goal has never been to stir controversy or disrupt just for the sake of those things. I am hungry, and searching, and that is why I am here.

    In the meantime I can just hope that my struggle and my "bad qualities" and putting it all out there might somehow help others. I know that sounds weird, but it's always a relief to me when I see I'm not the only person who's a mess.

    And yes, I do, "just sit," and do it practically every day.

    In truth, Will, I like you. Believe it or not. However, I suspect you are just as angry as I am, and it is very hard for me not to push someone's buttons when I sense that. I apologize for poking at you in this way and sincerely admire your practice and wish you all the best. You write good tunes too.

  4. #4
    Stephanie

    Thank you for that reply. It's tough sometimes to keep one's mouth shut. Trust me I know I am happy that I understand more about you now. Do you think that it would be more productive if things were discussed in a more mindful atmosphere? It's really hard to not let your feelings get in the way, but we have to put some effort into it.

    Ok.

    Thank you. Let's move on. It's a new moment

    Gassho Will

  5. #5
    Stephanie
    Guest


    Cheers, and thanks to you for your understanding as well.

    And it's not that I lack mindfulness, but that the bull of my mind is so strong and wild. That said, sure, there's a lot of stuff I can check at the door, and I'll be happy to try harder to be less prickly. I apologize in advance for the many failures I anticipate in this effort :wink:

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie
    if someone could help alleviate this doubt and the anger and disappointment that come with it. I cannot even tell you the heights of "Great Faith" to which I ascended last semester, and now I find myself back in the gutter, devoid of nearly all faith. It sucks. I would love to be feeling all lovey-dovey and "No problem, man," right now, but I'm not.
    Hopefully, Steph, you will someday find yourself somewhere without concern for "heights" or "gutter".

    And none of us should feel the need to overdo on the lovey-dovey. Lovey-dovey in moderation. Somewhere between phoney lovey-dovey and snarky-warky is a good place for all of us to be. 8)

    Will, nice to have you back too. Seems like Will and Steph have hit it off good!

    Gassho,

  7. #7
    Spot on, Harry, spot on

  8. #8
    Harry,

    Amazing photos, where are those of?

  9. #9
    Harry's big stones, of course

    :lol: :lol: :lol:

  10. #10
    Harry's big stones, of course
    :lol:

    Harry's balance is impressive.

    *Deep Gassho*

    :wink:

  11. #11
    Stephanie
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo
    Hopefully, Steph, you will someday find yourself somewhere without concern for "heights" or "gutter".
    Words to try to convey a feeling. Not so much a "concern," in the sense that I care whether I'm at the "heights" or in the "gutter" in some world-oriented way. It's the existential despair and emptiness that get me. Walkin' down the sidewalk with an empty feeling inside, sick and sorry like something's dead in there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo
    Somewhere between phoney lovey-dovey and snarky-warky is a good place for all of us to be. 8)


    Snarky-Warkies and Lovey-Doveys? Aren't those some sort of muppets? :wink:

  12. #12
    Walkin' down the sidewalk with an empty feeling inside, sick and sorry like something's dead in there.
    Hey Steph. You pretty much said it. That's how I was for most of my teen and adult life. I used to get really depressed.

    Zen is like those moments that we have in our life where we just feel ok. Everything fine. We just enjoy things as they are. There's a natural joy in it. Like sitting on the grass on a summer's day and having a drink enjoying the breeze.

    I found a lot of my depressed feeling came from really thinking too much. Being caught up in "why" instead of being caught up in the moment. Not being able to feel the shirt on my back (so to speak). So hang in there kiddo. I'm behind you all the way. Your not alone. Pay attention.

    Your going to have bad days and good days and the days will get better when you stop worrying about the bad days so much.

    Gassho Will

  13. #13
    Here's Something I posted at E Sangha about 6 months ago

    I started doing art again after many years. I had done art for many years and than stopped. I used to get much joy from doing art and looking at art. I remember at that time in my life I also had been more open. That's hard to descibe. Like a closeness with things and an impermenance. Understanding things like trees and birds and weather. Just being. Noticing the details and colors of a puddle and the light reflecting on it.

    In painting, and photography things are color and form ( to me anyway, but I'm sure I'm not the only one that knows this. I never understood most directions and things from books ((like cropping and stuff)) so most of my knowledge is from just looking at things). I remember noticing wet ground the colors and cracks etc... and smelling the dampness and wettness in the air. Feeling a soaked shoe and sock and toes.

    Now as I do my art, I open and notice things as color and form once more. I hear sound and feel the body.

    When I went outside today I observed things this way. I could feel the ground through my skateboard like the different texture of ground (amazing) and the wind(it was a grey and windy day ready to storm). It was enjoyable and natural. I had my mp3 player on and was really enjoying the music and just skating. So natural. I sat down after some skating and noticed the perspective of the marble tiles on the ground at the square where I was skating and listening to the sea. I then had a feeling of impermenance, emptiness or loneliness. I have felt this before. What's up with this? It is kind of, well, lonely. Has anyone else felt this before?
    Gassho

  14. #14
    Stephanie
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by will
    Walkin' down the sidewalk with an empty feeling inside, sick and sorry like something's dead in there.
    Hey Steph. You pretty much said it. That's how I was for most of my teen and adult life. I used to get really depressed.

    Zen is like those moments that we have in our life where we just feel ok. Everything fine. We just enjoy things as they are. There's a natural joy in it. Like sitting on the grass on a summer's day and having a drink enjoying the breeze.

    I found a lot of my depressed feeling came from really thinking too much. Being caught up in "why" instead of being caught up in the moment. Not being able to feel the shirt on my back (so to speak). So hang in there kiddo. I'm behind you all the way. Your not alone. Pay attention.

    Your going to have bad days and good days and the days will get better when you stop worrying about the bad days so much.

    Gassho Will
    Thank you for the compassion and understanding, will. Gassho. This helps.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by will
    Walkin' down the sidewalk with an empty feeling inside, sick and sorry like something's dead in there.
    Hey Steph. You pretty much said it. That's how I was for most of my teen and adult life. I used to get really depressed.

    Zen is like those moments that we have in our life where we just feel ok. Everything fine. We just enjoy things as they are. There's a natural joy in it. Like sitting on the grass on a summer's day and having a drink enjoying the breeze.

    I found a lot of my depressed feeling came from really thinking too much. Being caught up in "why" instead of being caught up in the moment. Not being able to feel the shirt on my back (so to speak). So hang in there kiddo. I'm behind you all the way. Your not alone. Pay attention.

    Your going to have bad days and good days and the days will get better when you stop worrying about the bad days so much.

    Gassho Will
    Hi Will,

    I will second all of this, having been depressed myself through the teen years and early twenties. Very well said, especially the part about a lot of depression being over thinking.

    Gassho, Jundo

  16. #16
    Stephanie
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo
    I will second all of this, having been depressed myself through the teen years and early twenties. Very well said, especially the part about a lot of depression being over thinking.
    It helps me to know that you went through this too. Thank you for that, and gassho.

    "Over thinking" doesn't always seem to be the cause, but it certainly makes it worse. Being depressed isn't nearly as bad when one's mind isn't obsessively comparing it to some other imagined experience. Y'all's words have helped me see that in the past few days, and it's helped. Again, thanks.

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