Dealing with all those annoying 'interruptions' :)

[Billy]

Hello Treeleaf,


Hope everyone is well.

I have noticed myself sometimes getting annoyed or disturbed in the middle of a sit by barking dogs, beeping horns, crying cats, kids yelling, etc etc.
Sometimes I can easily 'let it go' and sometimes I get angry at silly stuff, like a rude cat. I know its silly but sometimes it seems hard coming to terms that life "don't care about interrupting your zazen time".

Well, I have found that saying "it's just -------" to myself snaps me out of it for just about anything.

"It's just ...a dog."
"It's just ...a car horn."
"It's just ...my house on fire."

No matter what it is I can put a "It's just ... " and somehow its fine.

Doe's anyone else have an tricks they use for dealing with life's interruptions?

SatTodayLAH
Billy


"Before you cross the street take my hand.
Life is what happens to you while you’re busy making other plans."

[Jishin]

Hi Billy,

There is no place to go. No place to hide. The dog, car horn and house on fire are always here. Just deal with it.

My 2 cents.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Jakuden]

Hello Treeleaf,


Hope everyone is well.

I have noticed myself sometimes getting annoyed or disturbed in the middle of a sit by barking dogs, beeping horns, crying cats, kids yelling, etc etc.
Sometimes I can easily 'let it go' and sometimes I get angry at silly stuff, like a rude cat. I know its silly but sometimes it seems hard coming to terms that life "don't care about interrupting your zazen time".

Well, I have found that saying "it's just -------" to myself snaps me out of it for just about anything.

"It's just ...a dog."
"It's just ...a car horn."
"It's just ...my house on fire."

No matter what it is I can put a "It's just ... " and somehow its fine.

Doe's anyone else have an tricks they use for dealing with life's interruptions?

SatTodayLAH
Billy


"Before you cross the street take my hand.
Life is what happens to you while you’re busy making other plans."

John Lennon From Beautiful Boy.

I have had to practice with constant interruptions and have just learned to incorporate them into what is. That's why it's called practice, I guess! Sitting beyond all judgment of good and bad. Today I got interrupted during my sit and left Insight Timer running for 6 hours

Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH




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[Zenmei]

Hello Treeleaf,


Hope everyone is well.

I have noticed myself sometimes getting annoyed or disturbed in the middle of a sit by barking dogs, beeping horns, crying cats, kids yelling, etc etc.
Sometimes I can easily 'let it go' and sometimes I get angry at silly stuff, like a rude cat. I know its silly but sometimes it seems hard coming to terms that life "don't care about interrupting your zazen time".

Well, I have found that saying "it's just -------" to myself snaps me out of it for just about anything.

"It's just ...a dog."
"It's just ...a car horn."
"It's just ...my house on fire."

No matter what it is I can put a "It's just ... " and somehow its fine.

Doe's anyone else have an tricks they use for dealing with life's interruptions?

SatTodayLAH
Billy


"Before you cross the street take my hand.
Life is what happens to you while you’re busy making other plans."

This bothered me a lot when I started sitting. At some point I realized the problem was that I was expecting my zazen to be perfect, and I was seeing these "interruptions" as defects. I realized the problem was my desire for things to be different than they are. Now when I sit, if a dog is barking, I sit dog bark zazen. If a fly buzzes in my ear, I sit fly-buzzing zazen. Whatever happens during a sitting isn't an interruption, it's the sit itself.
Most of the time I sit heavy-cat-on-one-leg zazen. I have yet to sit a "perfect" sit, but I've sat plenty of perfectly imperfect ones.

Gassho, Zenmei
#sat/lah

[Jundo]

Hi Billy,

I like your trick, but no need to even put it in words. Just return to the breath, the posture or to just sitting .... 10,000 times and 10,000 times again.

Flowers and smelly garbage cans, birds tweeting and blasting motorcycles racing by, the breeze blowing and noisy tv's down the hall, green grassy fields and smoking battle fields are all the same when the mind leaves away preferences, resistance, separation ...

This became clear for me when I first came to Japan and was sitting at several famous Zen temples, looking for the "authentic", peaceful "Zen experience". So, at Sojiji Monastery, when I used to sit there each week, it was mosquitoes and cars passing on the driveway next to the Zazen hall and (if can you believe it) a PA system that used to make loud announcements during Zazen, like "YAMAMOTO ROSHI, YOU HAVE A CALL ON LINE 2". At Taisoji temple, it was traffic sounds from the street outside and the train passing every few minutes. At Nishijima Roshi's Dojo, it was the crowded children's playground right outside the open window as we sat on Saturday mornings.

We seek to sit in quiet as much as possible. There has never been perfect quiet (all my Zazen quiet reminds me of sometimes is the whistling in my ears and how noisy the world is).

No problem ...

Most days, we’d best sit Zazen in a quiet room, with little noise and few distractions. The reason is simply that a peaceful, still, quiet environment helps us allow the mind to become peaceful, still and quiet, with thoughts and emotions drifting away as the mind settles down.

But once in awhile, maybe every two or three weeks or so, I recommend you sit Zazen in a truly disturbing place. Today, I am sitting Zazen in one of the busiest, brightest, noisiest parts of downtown Tokyo — to make the point that the true quiet room is within us as much as out. In fact, if we always need a calm and tranquil environment in order to reach the balance, stillness, ease, and freedom of this practice, then I believe Zazen loses much of its power. It is right at the eye of the storm that one can know stillness, and in the middle of chaos that we can taste peace.

more here ...
http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...nners-%2821%29

And another good time to repost on Suzuki Roshi distinction of "sound" and "noise" . Yes, noise or anything is not really a "disturbance" without the mind to be "disturbed". If the mind is not "disturbed", then what "disturbance"? This is not merely about kids during Zazen or people moving or belching, but all the moments in life which come to "bother" "interrupt" "ruin" etc. etc. our life.

Here is the video with Suzuki Roshi in which he distinguishes "sound" from "noise", and points out that "inside" and "outside" us is not a clear border ...

At our Zendo in Tsukuba, for our Saturday morning Zazenkai, birds can usually be heard chirping prettily in the surrounding trees ...

... but also, a truck or cars will frequently be heard rushing down the nearby road, carpenters banging fixing a neighbors roof, or a military helicopter passing overhead (I do not know why, but our house must be on some route they use to one of the nearby bases).

It has become one of the most powerful teaching tools I have for new students. I tell them that it is not to think "Oh, the birds are very lovely and peaceful ... but the trucks and helicopters disturb my nice Zazen". Rather, "the birds are singing as birds ... the trucks are trucks ... the copter just copters. Do not think one pleasant but the other ugly or detracting from the atmosphere. Then, there is a certain quiet and stillness that one can come hear behind and sounding right through all the sounds and noise."

I learned this sitting many a morning at Nishijima Roshi's old Zendo ... located right next to a NOISY child's playground and a highway.

Suzuki Roshi has a lovely little talk (one of his few video talks) on the mind's making "sound vs. noise". If I recall, his birds in the talk were not as pretty sounding as ours!



Gassho, Jundo (a really annoying guy, depending on how you hear me! )

SatToday!

PS - I was not sure why Suzuki Roshi found the Blue Jay's cry so intrusive, so I found this ...



Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Joyo]

Hi Billy, I have interruptions during zazen frequently too. I view all those interruptions as part of zazen. The kids interrupt me, I get up to go help them, I return to my cushion, it's all zazen. The cat is snoring, dogs barking, doorbell rings, it's all zazen.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today/lah

[Mp]

Hello Billy,

I found this too when I first started sitting, but overtime one becomes more grounded, less distracted by what is happening around us. In the meantime when such interruptions/distraction come bring yourself back as Jundo has mentioned and just sit, in time you will find quietness even in the noise of the outside world. =)

Gassho
Shingen

SatToday/LAH

[Hoko]

Hi Billy,

I'm no teacher but as far as I understand it, naming sounds or labeling thoughts isn't shikantaza. The thought that the dog barking is annoying is just another thought and in the radical practice of non-doing thay we practice in shikantaza we acknowledge the thought but avoid engaging it. Like most things this gets easier with practice.

Having written this I now see many people have already given you excellent advice. So all I'll add is encouragement to please continue to practice!

Gassho,
Hōkō
#SatToday
LAH

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[Jundo]

Billy, I just want to ditto ditto ditto all the wise advice you are hearing from all our folks above in this thread.

[Billy]

Thank you all for help and encouragement.

[Eishuu]

I live on a very noisy little street and there is often a lot of noise outside, as well as occasionally inside from my husband or cat. I usually see noise as something helping me to be present, bringing me back when I drift into thoughts. That way there is less aversion.

Gassho
Lucy
Sat today/LAH

[Kyonin]

Hi Billy,

Interruptions, noises and even itches are fantastic. I really like them. Whenever I feel I'm getting angry at them I put my attention on how my ego wants to take control and doesn't stop producing garbage. Just a couple days ago there was a huge party in a house nearby. And Mexican parties are super noisy and super annoying. Part of me was angry. Part of me was happy because people were having fun celebrating humanity.

But I just sat without moving. Some minutes later the noise was still there. And I didn't move.

Stillness of the body leads to stillness of the mind.

Gassho,

Kyonin
Sat/LAH

[Suuko]

Every obstacle overcome is one more lesson learnt or one more thing dropped. Zen is in every moment. It reminds me of this story.






Tosui was a well-known Zen teacher of his time. He had lived in several temples and taught in various provinces.

The last temple he visited accumulated so many adherents that Tosui told them he was going to quit the lecture business entirely. He advised them to disperse and go wherever they desired. After that no one could find any trace of him.

Three years later one of his disciples discovered him living with some beggars under a bridge in Kyoto. He at once implored Tosui to teach him.

"If you can do as I do for even a couple days, I might," Tosui replied.

So the former disciple dressed as a beggar and spent the day with Tosui. The following day one of the beggars died. Tosui and his pupil carried the body off at midnight and buried it on a mountainside. After that they returned to their shelter under the bridge.

Tosui slept soundly the remainder of the night, but the disciple could not sleep. When morning came Tosui said: "We do not have to beg food today. Our dead friend has left some over there." But the disciple was unable to eat a single bite of it.

"I have said you could not do as I," concluded Tosui. "Get out of here and do not bother me again."

[Billy]

Thank you all again.

A thought, or question on a clarification came to me.

In the video of Shunryu Suzuki (loved his book Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind) he is saying the mind, once hearing a sound, is (or should be) in that very moment, the sound itself.

My little trick of "It's just....." is creating a 'me' and thus dividing the world into duality, thus even though it is emptying the emotional response it isn't 'whole with all that is' that is the correct goal?

Whenever I 'label' or 'judge' something, even in the most basic level, like my mind itself, it is a type of 'clinging'?

Billy
SatToday/LAH


PS - Those bluejays are like the Gilbert Gottfried of birds.

[Tairin]

I live about 100 metres away from a fire hall. If I was waiting for pure silence before sitting I`d never have sat.

Actually I am quite thankful for the sounds. Sometimes my mind wanders or I get so caught up in a story that I lose track of the fact that I am supposed to be sitting and letting thoughts go but at those times abrupt or sharp sounds really shocks me back into the present. My guess is that those sounds act in a similar way to the Keisaku used in some monasteries, except that my blows are auditory not physical.

I`ve sat at a campsite with people walking around. I`ve sat at airports waiting for my plane. I`ve sat in parking lots waiting for my wife. I`ve sat while my son noisily makes breakfast downstairs. I`ve sat with my cat ripping around the house like she is on fire. At those times I remind myself of Jundo`s video about sitting in downtown Tokyo. There is peace and stillness in every moment.

It`s all good

Gassho
Warren
Sat today

[Rich]

There is a difference between responding and reacting. All these noises while sitting don't require a response. Well maybe a fire alarm or some emergency does. So what is reacting, it's your mind. So drop the mind. Just be here, relaxed, not moving.

SAT today

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[Meian]

If I waited until my life was completely still and quiet, I'd never sit or do anything. My life has not been quiet or still for 30 years, but i accepted this long ago.

My practice works for me because I have learned thru TreeLeaf that it can be done anywhere, even if not always zazen, but i can do it *with* my chaotic life, not in spite of it. Always a work in progress.

My perspective.

Gassho
Kim
St

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[Jakuden]

If I waited until my life was completely still and quiet, I'd never sit or do anything. My life has not been quiet or still for 30 years, but i accepted this long ago.

My practice works for me because I have learned thru TreeLeaf that it can be done anywhere, even if not always zazen, but i can do it *with* my chaotic life, not in spite of it. Always a work in progress.

My perspective.

Gassho
Kim
St

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!
Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH


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[Meian]

"It is right at the eye of the storm that one can know stillness, and in the middle of chaos that we can taste peace."

Jundo, your words here are so powerful, and true.

I sometimes don't have a choice *but* to sit, chant, etc, in a truly disturbing place, but that becomes my stillness, my peace, my Center. It then becomes "easier" for me to navigate thru the storms or face them directly when I need to, if I've been sitting quietly with chaos and storms swirling around me.

Gassho
Kim
St

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[Byokan]

Hi Billy,

thanks for posting this, it's something we all experience. My thoughts, for what they're worth:

Labeling sounds and sensations and mental formations as they arise is a useful meditation technique, but it is not shikantaza. (Well, it is, in the sense that everything is shikantaza, but in this context, no, it is not.) I personally found that the years I spent using that technique did help me to be a bit less reactive, and to focus and settle down with relative ease. Doing it off the cushion can be even more transformative. However, I think you're right that saying “its” creates duality, separation. And “just” -- that’s a value judgement. One could leave those and just say “sound” or “memory” or “sadness” or “itching”. And let it be.

But in shikantaza we don't label, we just allow, sit in awareness, rest into what is. Things arise and pass away, and attaching or resisting is unnecessary. If something arises that needs attention, like the house burning down or a child needing care, we deal with it appropriately.

I think it is not really the noise that is disturbing. The noise is just a noise, just vibration in the air. One noise is no different from another in this sense. Car alarm is the same as chanting the Heart Sutra is the same as the wind in the trees is the same as your heartbeat. It is our reaction to the noise -- wanting things to be otherwise -- which makes the “interruption.”

Even when there is no noise we may be “interrupted” by thoughts, emotions, or physical sensations. It’s always something. Because we are alive! And we have these complex brains and incredibly perceptive sense organs. Isn’t it wonderful? Consider that "Buddha nature pervades the whole universe," -- it is in everything that distracts or delights you. "Reality, existing right here" -- this is your home, exactly as it is.

10,000 things happened to produce the causes and conditions for whatever sound is arising right now. How could it be any other way?

It's kind of like saying, “Dang! I wanted to ride my bicycle, but I am distracted by the wheels turning and the ground moving and the sky looming over my head!” In becoming aware of your reaction to these “interruptions,” you are well on your way. You are doing it! Enjoy the ride!

Just keep sitting. Things get better. Then they’ll get worse again... And then better... etc. Do this all your life.

Gassho
Byōkan
sat + lah

[Geika]

I read not so long ago that listening is a good vehicle for meditation. It is not shikantaza, but like breath counting, listening can help to settle the mind for zazen. The reason why is because sounds just come, we hear, they go, we don't hear, or a new sound comes with no control from ourselves. We have no choice but to let the sounds go by. When I find myself grasping thoughts, I remember how it feels when sounds come and how I can let them go effortlessly. But every sit is different.

Gassho, sat today

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[Jundo]

What all the wise folks said! Lovely advice.

I really love these threads where i don't have to do nothing, and all the other folks do the work.

Yes, labeling is a good Practice off the cushion ... but not during Shikantaza. In Zazen, simply open the hand of thought 10,000 times and 10,000 times again, don't latch on to the disturbance, simply return to the breath or posture or just sitting ... and sit.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

PS - Billy, may I ask you to post a human face photo as your "avatar"? It is one of the precious ways we have to look each other in the eye around here a bit. Please read our confidentiality tips with some information on how, and the best ways to do so. Thank you.

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...Sangha-Members

[Myogan]

I will probably mess this up, but I find the sounds are no different than the feeling of the cushion on my butt, the incense in the air, the speck of dirt on the wall.
Identifying Them is the first act of grasping thoughts and leads to more thoughts.
This happens naturally, as our minds naturally want stimulus. Some times the"letting go" is like sand slipping though your fingers and we let it happen. Some times it is like holding something more substantial and you have to open your fingers slightly, the trick is to let the fingers of your thoughts move the least and not turn it into mental hand dancing ( )

Gassho
sat