How not to be selfish but not too generous in the same time?

[Makkusu]

Hello everyone,

in my recent life, I seem to have a bigger problem with one specific topic: sharing things with people but not exaggerating it. I still go to school and there are already a few troubles I have. If someone needs money to buy a meal in one of the breaks, should I offer it without wanting to have it back? I can't go around and collect the money people owe me, this doesn't seem like an act someone mindful would do. I'm sorry that I can't really explain it, so I will use another example.

I share a Netflix account with two of my friends, my dad pays for it with his credit card. So I told them that I would just need 2-3€ by them a month for Netflix, my dad told me that I can keep the money. My friends payed me once 20€ for a few months, but after I told them I used it for myself they stopped paying and were getting really disappointed. They thought I tricked them or something like that, they just say "I want to see your dad and give him the money myself!", today one even said "Tell your dad that he shall come around if he wants his money" (in German of course, it didn't sound as harsh as here). And here is my problem. I am also disappointed of them because they take this for granted and didn't pay the money for Netflix for a year now. They even share our account now with someone of our class without telling me. It's okay to me, but I like to be asked about such stuff.

This text seems very ego centered and selfish I guess. I don't want to control them or to gain more money, I just get angry when I think about the whole situation how I "give an inch and they take a mile". I don't want anyone to say me that I'm right, I just want someone to comment this and maybe help me. My biggest problem is that I get angry over this.

And this is not the only one. I tend to give people something without expecting something back but they keep to take. I often seem to draw the shortest straw as I want to please everyone else first. When to be "selfish"? This is a big topic to me so I would be very grateful if someone could help me with this.

Gassho, Max

[Shugen]

Hello Max,

Boundaries and limits are good things. When we vow to save all sentient beings, that also includes ourselves. Being "mindful" does not mean that you can't say no. If you are putting the needs of others before yourself because it is a compassionate thing to do, that is one thing. If you are doing it so others "like" you or you somehow feel you don't "deserve" to be put first, that is something entirely different.

Anyway, this is just one person's thoughts on the matter.

Gassho,

Shugen

Sattoday


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[Kyosei]

Hey friend, how are you Max?

Man. I would ask you about how is your self-steem? because I know a guy very much like me, you know, who had troubles with his self-steem and used to do everything he could just to achieve some recognizing by other people. Of course when people didn't responded the way he expected, he was always getting frustrated and angry, or vice-versa. AND this guy I once knew used to misunderstand "selfishness" for "self-respect", and "generosity" for "giving expecting (emotional) return".

I don't know if you know people like this. I've heard from him that his parents used to educate him to be a good person, maybe putting himself in last place, as if it was "humility", but I guess it lowering his self-steem, and he wanted to regain it doing good (or what he thought it was) actions to other people, always thinking of himself as not too good, not too able...when people pointed him of it, he used to react telling himself that this kind of conduct was gentle and compassive (even better than this "kind" of people), etc. I guess you got the point.

Indeed he was a good person, never acting to harm nobody intentionally. He had little, but good friends...his parents loved him. He had girlfriends, a good job... but he was somewhat lost from himself, having always to depend on the conceptions and visions of others to better see himself.

He joined to many religious groups, in His search... always finding, at last, some point of disagreement for the doctrine or philosophy and then he just leave...I guess maybe religions nurtures that search for "God" or for "completeness" in which we'll someday finally finds our True Self.

Some people counseled him to look for help, maybe from a therapist...a psychologist or even a psychoanalyst, to help him understand himself.

Concomitantly he turned back to practice Zazen again, expecting nothing...

He was a little resistant, but tried to be constant at that and people who know him now can say he is a much balanced person...though judgment from people means a bit little than it meant earlier in his life...he is more secure of himself - I guess

This "discovery" of the true self goes a long way, so start little...without demanding too much from you. Slowly you'll just SEE.

So maybe I could say that my friend, as a little friendly advice: sit Zazen, sit Shikantaza. Look for yourself, beyond conceptions of "good" or "bad", "selfish" or "generous"...and if you think you are having trouble with your behavior, I think it is always a good thing to seek a good professional, maybe a counselor, who can see what you still can't and work on that for your benefit.

Besides that, you can always count with the Sangha for support and some friendly advice.

Be well

Gassho

Marcos

#SatToday

[Mp]

Hello Max,

There is a time to give, a time to receive ... the key is where the giving a receiving come from and goes to. Yes there are times where we give and there is nothing in need of a return, but there are times too where we do give, but important that it is returned, i.e. sharing money with someone who needs it, but yet we still have bills to pay down the road.

Listen to your heart more and your head less. Your mind might try to rationalize your actions (which is important too), but your heart will tell if it is the right decision at that time. Again, just a thought, hope it helps. =)

Gassho
Shingen

s@today

[Rich]

We don't give to get anything. We give out of kindness and love. Then the giving becomes joy for all. Your situation with Netflix sounds more like a service agreement which the other parties have failed to honor. The fact that your father gives the money back to you is a separate agreement between you and your father.

Sat today

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[Myosha]

Hello,

Thinking.

What is it good for? Getting out of the way of a moving bus.

To quote a fool (whose words are wisdom) ". . . ., neither a lender nor a borrower be . . .".

Getting, giving: what is the difference.

Rule of thumb -

Just sit.


Gassho
Myosha
sat today

[Jishin]

Hi Max,

The answer is very easy because you already know it!



Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Diarmuid1]

A friend once told me that he never lends money thinking that he will get it back. He lends what he is prepared to part with on the understanding that he probably won't see it again. This way, he said, he doesn't feel disappointed when the money never re-materialises (and he never lends more than he's prepared to lose). It seemed like smart thinking to me.

Never mix business with pleasure is another aphorism. Friendship means sharing, not selling. It also means never looking a gift horse in the mouth. Were these friends or acquaintances? In your situation, I think I would change the password of my Netflix account.


ST Diarmuid

[Jundo]

Hello Max,

There is a time to give, a time to receive ...

Yes.

There is a time to loan and receive back, a time just to give a gift. There is a time to give by not giving (for example, if someone asks me to give them money for illegal drugs, my not giving is a gift to them). There is a time to give intangibles such as Teachings or love and friendship alone.

Also, we realize that there is no giver, no receiver and nothing which can be given. Giver gift and receive are one.

That being said ... perhaps you should not be sharing Netflix paswords? A kind of stealing? I am surprised that that is not mentioned.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Makkusu]

Hi Jundo, (I will answer the others later)

for Netflix, there are account options that 4 people can watch at the same time so I think it's not actual stealing, but correct me if I'm wrong.

Gassho, Max

[Jundo]

Hi Jundo, (I will answer the others later)

for Netflix, there are account options that 4 people can watch at the same time so I think it's not actual stealing, but correct me if I'm wrong.

Gassho, Max

Apparently ... I stand corrected. (I usually answer questions about time, space and the meaning of life ... not the Netflix terms of use).

https://www.cnet.com/news/netflix-is...-your-account/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0e05f05232f67

Gassho, J

Sat Today, will probably watch an episode of Stranger Things on Netflix tonight.

[Makkusu]

Hello everyone, (now I've got time)

thank you very much for your responses! A big "thanks" goes to Marcos, your post made me think today (maybe not as good as I wasn't "in the moment", but you get the idea). I never really thought why I give people so much and I never considered that I would do it so they liked me. In many cases I just think "I would be glad if someone did the same for me so here you go", but with this different view, I think I can see that it's important to also think of myself first before just giving. I got picked on in grammar school so my self esteem wasn't that great since then, but since I've made new friends they really build me up. Fun fact, those mentioned friends are the same which don't pay for Netflix right now. But I can handle this, nobody's perfect. You really opened my eyes, I did know that it's okay if someone doesn't like me, but I never acted this way. Today I made first attempts to say "No" when I don't think it's alright for me. I automatically would say "Yes" in the past even if I didn't agree.

I am glad that I asked you guys and gals, have a nice day. Best way to handle this problem should be Zazen right now.

Gassho, Max
#willsitnow

[Kyonin]

Hey Max,

Fair is fair. If the agreement was that the whole group would pay for the account, all involved should honor that. Of course sometimes one would take advantage.

Like it's been said, I think there is nothing wrong with sharing Netflix for now. Maybe you can reset the agreement? Talk to all, put things down on the table and set new rules to be followed by everyone. Sometimes when we are doing things with friends we tend to forget they are people too, and we people sometimes go greedy.

It could work.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Heion]

The story goes that once a cobra was so impressed by the gentleness of a monk who lived in a forest hermitage nearby that he asked to become his disciple. The monk agreed and knowing that snakes can be quick-tempered thought it appropriate to teach him metta meditation. The cobra proved to be a good student, meditating regularly and becoming more good-natured as a result. One day while basking in the sun he noticed a woman nearby collecting sticks for the household fire. Rather than slither away or stand erect with his hood open so as to scare her, as had been his habit, he decided to remain where he was and radiate metta to the woman. She got closer and closer until she had collect enough sticks and then began looking around for something to tie them up with. Seeing the cobra and mistaking him for a piece of vine she picked him up by the tail, gave him a violent flick, wrapped him several times around the sticks, pulled him tight and then tied him in a knot. Then she put the bundle on her head and walked home. When she got there she untied the ‘vine’ and threw it away. Battered, bent and wincing with pain the poor cobra made his way back to the hermitage and told the monk what had happened. “You tell me to cultivate metta and this is what I get for it” he complained mournfully. The monk replied: “Just because you have metta doesn’t mean you can’t sometimes hiss.”

http://sdhammika.blogspot.com/2013/0...ttle-hiss.html

You can give a little hiss.

[Jika]

I really enjoyed reading this thread!
Thanks to everyone, especially to Max for asking.
Found myself in a similar situation, where a co-worker borrowed money to pay for a gift for someone else.
I was torn between mentioning it (she wanted to contribute to this gift, didn't she?), and feeling morally wrong and petty to say something.
After three weeks she gave me the money unexpectedly, said she had totally forgotten about it before.

Great story, Heion!

Gassho
Jika
#sattoday

[Eishuu]

I enjoyed this thread too. I can relate to being 'generous' in order to please people or get them to like me. In primary school I gave away my entire marble collection (which was large) in order to make people like me (it didn't work). There is definitely a difference between giving to get something back or please people, and generosity.

With the Netflix situation, I wonder if the financial arrangement was rather messy and confusing for your friends. There were essentially 2 stages to the transaction. Your dad pays and your friends owe the money to him, and then he lets you keep it. But to your friends it might have appeared that your dad was paying and you were keeping the money, appearing to make money from your dad's generosity. I wonder if it would be clearer to separate the 2 stages so that your friends pay your dad back (which they sound happy and comfortable doing) and then he gives you the money. I don't know...maybe they are just being greedy but it sounds like they are uncomfortable with giving you the money specifically (not being part of your agreement with your dad). Just a thought.

Boundaries and limits are really important with giving, loans, and financial transactions. Things can get so messy when they are not clear to begin with...is it a loan, a gift, who owes what...etc. And especially with low self-esteem, establishing boundaries is so important and looking after yourself in relationships. Really great that your have new friends that build you up and are starting to say 'no'. That's a big step. I think only if you are able to say 'no' can you really say 'yes'.

Gassho
Lucy
Sat today

[Ongen]

Hi Max,

Great questions and a lot of nice answers already.

I would reccommend you to go and see the movie called "Yes Man" with Jim Carrey in the lead role.
I think it's a nice way to spend a few minutes, and it answers a lot of your questions

By the way, Jim Carrey has more up his sleeve than his usually cheesy characters might suggest.

Gassho
Ongen

Sat Today

[Kyosei]

Hi Max,

Great questions and a lot of nice answers already.

I would reccommend you to go and see the movie called "Yes Man" with Jim Carrey in the lead role.
I think it's a nice way to spend a few minutes, and it answers a lot of your questions

By the way, Jim Carrey has more up his sleeve than his usually cheesy characters might suggest.

Gassho
Ongen

Sat Today

Hi Ongen, I agree, some Jim Carrey movies are great! I saw (quite recently) "The Truman Show"; another I remember in this "line" is the "Eternal Sunshine of The Spotless Mind", "Bruce Almighty"..."Liar Liar"... all these brought me important reflections, somehow...

Some of these comedy actors even has background in Philosophy, see for example Steve Martin...

Ah, and Max, be well

Thank you all

Gassho

Marcos

#SatToday

[Doshin]

http://sdhammika.blogspot.com/2013/0...ttle-hiss.html

You can give a little hiss.

I like snake stories where the snake is not portrayed in an evil way!

Gassho

A Man who appreciates snakes

Doshin
sattoday