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Thread: Sept 9th-10th, 2016 - OUR MONTHLY 4-hour ZAZENKAI - COMMENCING this ANGO & JUKAI !

  1. #51
    May I ask one more question?

    Is everything (even stinky things, lol) the Buddha only when we perceive we are really not separated from it?

    I remember something I read - maybe a Koan - when Bodhidharma says "not sacred", I guess it is one of the responses he gives to Emperor Wu:

    "(...)Emperor Wu, a little put out: "What then is the most important principle of Buddhism?"

    Bodhidharma: "Vast emptiness. Nothing sacred.""

    as seenhere.

    What does he meant by "Nothing sacred" if everything is Buddha, if Buddha-nature pervades all? Does he said that because the emperor were conceptualizing?

    Gassho.
    _/|\_

    Kyōsei

    強 Kyō
    声 Sei

    Namu kie Butsu, Namu kie Ho, Namu kie So.

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcos View Post

    May I ask a question: when "we" set our objectives for the Ango session, (presuming we are doing it wholeheartedly, not trying to "compete" for "approval of the teacher", for attention, etc. with someone's else's objectives) why do we do that (in Ango)? Is there a historical or traditional background for that?
    Hi Marcos,

    If I understand your question, Ango was the time in India when the monks would gather to Practice together during the rainy season when travel was impossible. It became, in China and Japan and elsewhere, a time to gather for a bit more intensive group Practice, basically an extended Sesshin.

    There is "nothing to attain" in this Practice, but sometimes we need to work a bit more intensively and seriously ... wrestling with our me myself and i ... to attain what this "nothing to attain" is all about.

    And: Do these compromises comes from our True Self (as we know they almost represents sacrifices for us)? Is that because we intimately already "know" what we need to improve or "open hand of" to "cut the edges" and "shine our diamonds" (I remembered Pink Floyd's "Shine On You Crazy Diamond",lol.) to express our True Selves more vast and openly? Hope you understood what I tried to convey.
    Frankly, I understand the lyrics to Pink Floyd's Animals more. I will let you figure all this out or, better, drop it aside and just Ango.

    Gassho, J

    SatToday
    Last edited by Jundo; 09-12-2016 at 03:12 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

    #SAT TODAY!

  3. #53
    Treeleaf Unsui / Engineer Sekishi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcos View Post
    Bodhidharma: "Vast emptiness. Nothing sacred.""

    as seenhere.

    What does he meant by "Nothing sacred" if everything is Buddha, if Buddha-nature pervades all? Does he said that because the emperor were conceptualizing?
    I am a junior around here, so take this with a grain of salt, but I have three questions on this for you:

    1. If it could have been stated more clearly, Bodhidharma would have done so. Why didn't he use more words?
    2. Few teachings are absolutes. Bodhidharma was responding to Emperor Wu. What is "sacred" to someone who built many Buddhist temples (and destroyed many Taoist temples) in a bid for merit?
    3. If we sit and connect personally with "vast emptiness", what thing can be grasped that is sacred?

    But again, take that with a chunk 'o salt.

    Deep bows,
    Sekishi
    sekishi
    石志

    As a novice priest-in-training, this is simply an expression of my opinion. Please take it with a grain of salt.

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Sekishi View Post
    I am a junior around here, so take this with a grain of salt, but I have three questions on this for you:

    1. If it could have been stated more clearly, Bodhidharma would have done so. Why didn't he use more words?
    2. Few teachings are absolutes. Bodhidharma was responding to Emperor Wu. What is "sacred" to someone who built many Buddhist temples (and destroyed many Taoist temples) in a bid for merit?
    3. If we sit and connect personally with "vast emptiness", what thing can be grasped that is sacred?

    But again, take that with a chunk 'o salt.

    Deep bows,
    Sekishi
    Gassho, Sekishi. A bow. I'll sit with that. Thank you so much.
    _/|\_

    Kyōsei

    強 Kyō
    声 Sei

    Namu kie Butsu, Namu kie Ho, Namu kie So.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Hi Marcos,

    If I understand your question, Ango was the time in India when the monks would gather to Practice together during the rainy season when travel was impossible. It became, in China and Japan and elsewhere, a time to gather for a bit more intensive group Practice, basically an extended Sesshin.

    There is "nothing to attain" in this Practice, but sometimes we need to work a bit more intensively and seriously ... wrestling with our me myself and i ... to attain what this "nothing to attain" is all about.



    Frankly, I understand the lyrics to Pink Floyd's Animals more. I will let you figure all this out or, better, drop it aside and just Ango.

    Gassho, J

    SatToday
    Gassho Jundo. Thank you.
    _/|\_

    Kyōsei

    強 Kyō
    声 Sei

    Namu kie Butsu, Namu kie Ho, Namu kie So.

  6. #56
    Thank you, everyone. Enjoy your Ango.

    -satToday
    Thanks,
    Kaishin (Open Heart aka Matt)
    Please take this layman's words with a grain of salt.

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcos View Post
    What does he meant by "Nothing sacred" if everything is Buddha, if Buddha-nature pervades all? Does he said that because the emperor were conceptualizing
    Hi Marcos,

    Nothing sacred for me is that everything is sacred! In fact, everything is so sacred that since all is in the same leven of sacredness, we fail to see it!

    But we can realize this with a still mind and with a steady practice.

    But I may be wrong

    Gassho,

    Kyonin
    #SatToday
    Please remember I am only a priest in training. I could be wrong in everything I say. Slap me if needed.

    The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one. Mr. Spock

  8. #58
    Treeleaf Unsui Shokai's Avatar
    Join Date
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    Sarnia, Ontario Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyonin View Post
    But we can realize this with a still mind and with a steady practice.

    But I may be wrong
    actually, i think you were right on



    When in doubt, just sit
    仁道 生開 - Jindo Shokai "Open to life in a benevolent way"
    Remember; sages love mountains and mountains love sages.

  9. #59
    It took a few bites but I finished sitting zazenkai with you all.
    Thank you, Jundo; I enjoyed your talk and thought you did a very good job bringing the koans to life.
    I wish everyone the best in their Ango efforts!
    Gassho,
    K2
    #SatToday

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
    法 Dharma
    口 Mouth

  10. #60
    Thank you all! A lovely way to start Ango!

    Gassho
    Kokuu
    #sattoday
    ------------------------------------
    Feel free to message me if you wish to talk about issues around practicing with physical limitations. This is something I have been sitting with for a fair while and am happy to help with suggestions or just offer a listening ear.

  11. #61
    I have already spoken about addiction, and now it is time to reflect on the end of summer, my daughter and the neighbor boy so fascinated with the three model rockets we had built in our kitchen never again to rub the stains of glue from mom's counter top. Daughter, young man of 8, and I took the rockets painted all red and blue to the empty school play area, welding rod launcher, and jetex wick in hand to shoot our constructions into the air above the school. I lit the first fuse, and blue rocket climbed about 200 feet above the building to glide into the parking lot with little effort. We experienced the same with the second model rocket, and the kids joyfully jumped into the grassy area behind the school to retrieve the second rocket, and then the third. Liftoff went fine, but the colorful yellow plastic parachute carried our creation into the trees separating school from houses. This finely decorated red projectile lodged up about 25 feet into thin branches. I somewhat haltingly offered the bow a quarter to shimmy up the tree and bring back the rocket from trees. This young man propped his arms and fists on hips, "What will you give me if I go half way up?" Let us not practice Ango and Jukai as I did last year for my first Jukai, and bargain to shimmy half way up the tree. I will never forget my daughter's disappointment as we walked away with only two rockets. Today, I had time, so rather than practice nothing, I practiced something most of the day. I know that not all have the luxury I have of retirement time, and still at age 65, I intend to make hay for the harvest, and find the middle way.

    Tai Shi
    std
    Gassho
    Last edited by Tai Shi; 09-15-2016 at 04:16 AM.
    The end is to know the beginning for the first time, and to know the beginning is to know the end.

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Tai Shi View Post
    I have already spoken about addiction, and now it is time to reflect on the end of summer, my daughter and the neighbor boy so fascinated with the three model rockets we had built in our kitchen never again to rub the stains of glue from mom's counter top. Daughter, young man of 8, and I took the rockets painted all red and blue to the empty school play area, welding rod launcher, and jetex wick in hand to shoot our constructions into the air above the school. I lit the first fuse, and blue rocket climbed about 200 feet above the building to glide into the parking lot with little effort. We experienced the same with the second model rocket, and the kids joyfully jumped into the grassy area behind the school to retrieve the second rocket, and then the third. Liftoff went fine, but the colorful yellow plastic parachute carried our creation into the trees separating school from houses. This finely decorated red projectile lodged up about 25 feet into thin branches. I somewhat haltingly offered the bow a quarter to shimmy up the tree and bring back the rocket from trees. This young man propped his arms and fists on hips, "What will you give me if I go half way up?" Let us not practice Ango and Jukai as I did last year for my first Jukai, and bargain to shimmy half way up the tree. I will never forget my daughter's disappointment as we walked away with only two rockets. Today, I had time, so rather than practice nothing, I practiced something most of the day. I know that not all have the luxury I have of retirement time, and still at age 65, I intend to make hay for the harvest, and find the middle way.

    Tai Shi
    std
    Gassho
    Tai Shi,

    a wonderful story, wonderfully told! Thank you for this teaching. I will remember it.

    Gassho
    Byōkan
    sat today

  13. #63
    Will be sitting this one tonight.

    Gassho,
    Matt

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Tai Shi View Post
    I have already spoken about addiction, and now it is time to reflect on the end of summer, my daughter and the neighbor boy so fascinated with the three model rockets we had built in our kitchen never again to rub the stains of glue from mom's counter top. Daughter, young man of 8, and I took the rockets painted all red and blue to the empty school play area, welding rod launcher, and jetex wick in hand to shoot our constructions into the air above the school. I lit the first fuse, and blue rocket climbed about 200 feet above the building to glide into the parking lot with little effort. We experienced the same with the second model rocket, and the kids joyfully jumped into the grassy area behind the school to retrieve the second rocket, and then the third. Liftoff went fine, but the colorful yellow plastic parachute carried our creation into the trees separating school from houses. This finely decorated red projectile lodged up about 25 feet into thin branches. I somewhat haltingly offered the bow a quarter to shimmy up the tree and bring back the rocket from trees. This young man propped his arms and fists on hips, "What will you give me if I go half way up?" Let us not practice Ango and Jukai as I did last year for my first Jukai, and bargain to shimmy half way up the tree. I will never forget my daughter's disappointment as we walked away with only two rockets. Today, I had time, so rather than practice nothing, I practiced something most of the day. I know that not all have the luxury I have of retirement time, and still at age 65, I intend to make hay for the harvest, and find the middle way.

    Tai Shi
    std
    Gassho
    Aw my brother had those rockets! They were so much fun! I bet your daughter has great memories!
    Gassho
    Jakuden
    SatToday


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    serene
    ​field

  15. #65
    The part that I was most struck by was when Jundo said to the gentleman, 'You are here.' So, for the last few days I've been noticing how 'I am here.' I'm not in all the stories that my mind creates, but 'I am here.' Thank you for this!

    Gassho,

    Anneliese
    Sat Today

  16. #66
    10 days late and very jet - lagged but happy I have officially started Ango.
    Thank you everyone and thank you Jundo for an inspiring talk.
    Gassho,
    Marina
    Sat Today
    柔 Jyū flexible
    活 Katsu energetic

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