Silence or (maybe) misleading compassion?

[Kyosei]

Hi friends.

I'm pretty sure that's a recurrent question here - please forgive me if I am bringing it again.

Last sunday I was "zazening" with the local Sangha people; somedays there are lots of beginners in Zazen, people who almost have no background on Buddhism readings, people whose buddhist references are at most the Dalai Lama and a fat little bald image of Maytrea, et cetera.

Some of them asked - what I think it's kinda natural - what is the meaning of going there and doing Zazen, what we achieve from it... those questions, you know.

I gave some answers on what I think about it, some other people did it too; but later, thinking about all of the given answers, I thought that all was confusing and (maybe) misleading.

So I thought that - as I am a student yet (and a very poor one, believe!), I should make a vow of silence on these matters and just practice.

Then, reading the Bodhisattva vows (I read them at the end of every evening zazen), I noticed that even my poor comprehension can give some "light" to somebody, maybe leading somebody to the way, to start practicing, who knows.

What do you think of it?

What should be a good, balanced attitude to a zen student in this case?

Gassho

[Zenmei]

Hi friends.

I'm pretty sure that's a recurrent question here - please forgive me if I am bringing it again.

Last sunday I was "zazening" with the local Sangha people; somedays there are lots of beginners in Zazen, people who almost have no background on Buddhism readings, people whose buddhist references are at most the Dalai Lama and a fat little bald image of Maytrea, et cetera.

Some of them asked - what I think it's kinda natural - what is the meaning of going there and doing Zazen, what we achieve from it... those questions, you know.

I gave some answers on what I think about it, some other people did it too; but later, thinking about all of the given answers, I thought that all was confusing and (maybe) misleading.

So I thought that - as I am a student yet (and a very poor one, believe!), I should make a vow of silence on these matters and just practice.

Then, reading the Bodhisattva vows (I read them at the end of every evening zazen), I noticed that even my poor comprehension can give some "light" to somebody, maybe leading somebody to the way, to start practicing, who knows.

What do you think of it?

What should be a good, balanced attitude to a zen student in this case?

Gassho

There aren't enough Zen Masters to go around. I think it's fine to answer questions as best we can as long we're up front and honest about the fact that we're not teachers, that we have no official transmission or empowerment, that we're just traveling this path with everybody else (Not to imply that our teachers aren't also traveling the path).

I lead a Buddhist recovery group every week, and I end up talking about some Buddhist point every week even though I've only been clean (and practicing Buddhism) for a few months now. I make sure to remind everyone several times a meeting that I have no idea what I'm doing and I have no authority whatsoever, and everything I say is based on my flawed and incomplete knowledge of the dharma.

It seems like some of the members of the group are getting something out of it in spite of my help.

I think it's important to examine our motivations for "teaching". Do we want people to think we're wise or profound? Best to shut up. Do we actually have a decent answer to an honest question? Maybe we can help.

This is just like, my opinion, man. My role here is nonauthoritative.

Gassho, Dudley
#sat

[Joyo]

That is a good question, and I do not consider myself qualified to answer. However, I will say that when I've been in similar situations, I will give a little bit of advice or my perspective on things. If the person responds well and seems to appreciate it, I may say a wee bit more, and then I leave it at that.

I'm a quiet, keep-to-myself kind of person so perhaps this is not everyone's way of handling these types of situations.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

[Ongen]

Hi Marcos,

This has been discussed indeed. My opinion (and my experience) is that it's wise to always clearly state where you are in your practice and that you are not a teacher, but simply speaking from your own experience which does not nescessarily have to be 'the dharma', so people don't get false ideas. Once that's done, you should be fine.
Even non-teachers can be valueable teachers.

Have you seen this documentary? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1865425/

It's quite amazing.

Gassho
Ongen

Sat today

[Jishin]

Hi Marcos,

Truth is self evident. You can speak truth to anyone at anytime when you find it beneficial. Do you know what truth is though? If you do, then just do it. It does not matter where it comes from.

My 2 cents.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Mp]

Hello Marcos,

Clarity and honesty! We all have something to share and what we share may or may not be of help (we don't know that until we share it), but I feel that it is important to be clear and honest "off the bat" before sharing. If you feel you can answer the question, then say you are a student that is still learning and growing and no a teacher, but this is how this has worked for me, or how this has affected me, or this is what I have tried in my practice/life. However, there too is a time to also be silent and just practice, but you are the only one who would know that, as it is you in those moments. =)

One additional thing if I may ... it is not about good or bad (being a good student or a poor one), we are all learning and growing together. If in our hearts our intention is pure and true, then we will do our best to share what we know in the right and most beneficial way. Again, this is just my two cents and I maybe right, I maybe wrong ... but I feel in my heart these are supportive words. =)

Gassho
Shingen

s@today

[Kyosei]

Hi Marcos,

This has been discussed indeed. My opinion (and my experience) is that it's wise to always clearly state where you are in your practice and that you are not a teacher, but simply speaking from your own experience which does not nescessarily have to be 'the dharma', so people don't get false ideas. Once that's done, you should be fine.
Even non-teachers can be valueable teachers.

Have you seen this documentary? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1865425/

It's quite amazing.

Gassho
Ongen

Sat today

Hi Ongen, thank you for your kind answer. I guess it was discussed sometime ago (if memory don't fail, it was a member asking if he should write a blog on his experiences), but I am meaning this on a perspective of the Vows, you know? "Though beings are numberless, I vow to save them all".

Yes, I've watched "Kumaré" a certain time ago on NETFLIX. Brilliant indeed! Thanks for bringing it to this discussion, hope other people watches it too (for me the best part is when he starts to conflict on the responsabilities for what he is conveying to people).

Thank you, my friend.

Gassho

[Kyosei]

(...)I think it's fine to answer questions as best we can as long we're up front and honest about the fact that we're not teachers, that we have no official transmission or empowerment, that we're just traveling this path with everybody else (Not to imply that our teachers aren't also traveling the path).
(...)
I think it's important to examine our motivations for "teaching"(...)

Thank you Dudley. I think to examine our motivations is really very important. And thanks for your work.

Gassho

[Kyosei]

Hi Marcos,

Truth is self evident. You can speak truth to anyone at anytime when you find it beneficial. Do you know what truth is though? If you do, then just do it. It does not matter where it comes from.

My 2 cents.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

Thank you Jishin. Sometimes your "2 cents" seems as invaluable as gold, for me.

Obrigado!

Gassho

[Kyosei]

That is a good question, and I do not consider myself qualified to answer. However, I will say that when I've been in similar situations, I will give a little bit of advice or my perspective on things. If the person responds well and seems to appreciate it, I may say a wee bit more, and then I leave it at that.

I'm a quiet, keep-to-myself kind of person so perhaps this is not everyone's way of handling these types of situations.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

Thanks Joyo

[Jishin]

Obrigado!

De nada!

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Kyosei]

Hello Marcos,

Clarity and honesty! We all have something to share and what we share may or may not be of help (we don't know that until we share it), but I feel that it is important to be clear and honest "off the bat" before sharing. If you feel you can answer the question, then say you are a student that is still learning and growing and no a teacher, but this is how this has worked for me, or how this has affected me, or this is what I have tried in my practice/life. However, there too is a time to also be silent and just practice, but you are the only one who would know that, as it is you in those moments. =)

One additional thing if I may ... it is not about good or bad (being a good student or a poor one), we are all learning and growing together. If in our hearts our intention is pure and true, then we will do our best to share what we know in the right and most beneficial way. Again, this is just my two cents and I maybe right, I maybe wrong ... but I feel in my heart these are supportive words. =)

Gassho
Shingen

s@today

This is really good advice. Thank you Shingen.

Gassho.

[Jundo]

Some wise folks, and wise advice, offered in this thread.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Kyonin]

Oi Marcos!

I think we should help people understand as best and kind as we can... as long as we know what we are saying. Like Shingen said, be honest about what you say.

If for any reason you don't actually know an answer, kindly say that you need a little more research and learning to answer. Misleading comes when an answer pretends to be correct or know it all.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Tanjin]

Hi Marcos,

This has been discussed indeed. My opinion (and my experience) is that it's wise to always clearly state where you are in your practice and that you are not a teacher, but simply speaking from your own experience which does not nescessarily have to be 'the dharma', so people don't get false ideas. Once that's done, you should be fine.
Even non-teachers can be valueable teachers.

Have you seen this documentary? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1865425/

It's quite amazing.

Gassho
Ongen

Sat today

Ongen:

Thank you for suggesting the documentary. I just finished watching it and it has certainly evoked some timely reflection on my part. I'm not sure that I agree with the filmmaker's method but I do appreciate many of the points that were made. Ultimately, we are all Buddha.

Gassho,
Jimmy

Sattoday