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Thread: Anyone ever used a meditation journal?

  1. #1

    Anyone ever used a meditation journal?

    Hello everyone,

    Has anyone ever kept a meditation journal? From my experience and Psychology research I've seen it can be super helpful in better understanding and moving past any issues that recur during meditation, whether related to problems in life that keep clouding the mind during Zazen or issues more directly related to the meditation practice itself. However, I haven't heard of it specifically in the Soto Zen tradition. Perhaps it's one of those things some people do but it's not emphasized in Soto Zen.

    Gassho _/\_

  2. #2
    Hi Mitty-san,

    I don't think it's really much of anything in any tradition. More something individuals do on their own basis, I believe. I can definitely see how it helps.

    Gassho
    Will

    Sat today

  3. #3
    I have seen journaling advised in books about meditation by Jon Kabat-Zinn and others. Never got around to doing it myself. However, along with little note cards I made with assorted gathas, chants, nurturing seeds and the like, I have made lists of reminders and sayings that help put me in a "Zenny frame of mind." I think at least for myself, journaling would actually hinder shikantaza. It seems like it would encourage following thoughts, where shikantaza is a really a doing/being rather than a thinking state. I try to let anything that "clouds the mind" just be what it is and not engage with it during Zazen. I think my little self would like to journal all those things it wants to consider important, but that would be missing the point of shikantaza.

    Of course some reading and writing does help us learn and there is a place for it. That's partly why a lot of us are here, too! I know that sometimes I go to post a question on here and just in writing it I already know the answer. Writing things down can clarify thoughts. I recently wrote a post detailing the random thoughts that crossed my mind during Zazen one day, mostly because I was amused at the range from silly and trivial to sad and/or painful all in one 30 minute session. If nothing else it helped me see how my mind kept popping up tempting trails of thought, desperate for attention, a little-self having a tantrum because it wasn't getting indulged for a few minutes.

    Just my rambling thoughts. I wouldn't bother writing them down... oh wait, I just did

    Gassho,
    Jakuden
    SatToday

  4. #4
    Joyo
    Guest
    I don't have what I would call a meditation journal. I just journal, a lot. I write down everything from my anxieties and fears, things I am grateful for, life lessons I learn, quotes and teachings. It's a place to retreat, and be myself without ever having to fear that what I write down is going to be judged or critiqued.

    Gassho,
    Joyo
    sat today

  5. #5
    Hi and Welcome again.

    I actually do not believe that "meditation journaling" would be fruitful in our Shikantaza way of sitting, and I believe that it could even be counter-productive. Why?

    We are radical "sit with what is", "nothing to attain" and "whatever comes, do not chase after it" folks. When thoughts and emotions come, we "pay em no nevermind" letting them go without grabbing on and riding along. We don't poke em with a stick, buy into their baloney, wallow or play their game, stir them up or let them ourselves be stirred.

    We do not seek unusual or special states believing that the most special state occurs, and the subject/object divide is truly dropped, in the very nature of radical non-seeking. Here is how I sometimes summarize the "payoff" to Shikantaza ...

    Our small self, the body-mind, is always filled with countless desires ... the desire to be somewhere else, be getting somewhere, achieving some prize, some distant goal. Our body-mind is always judging this or that as somehow inadequate to what the body-mind wants, its likes and dislikes, needs, regrets and dreams.

    Thus, when there is sat an instant of Zazen as wholeness in just sitting, the only place to be and act to do in that instant in all of reality that is required to fulfill life as life ... the Buddha and all the Ancestors just sitting in that instant of sitting, no other thing to attain or which ever can be attained ... no other place to go or in need of going ... all holes filled, whether full or empty or in between ... all lack and excess resolved in that one sitting, with not one thing to add or take away ... judgments dropped away, "likes and dislikes" put aside ... nothing missing from Zazen (even when we might feel that "something is missing", for one can be fully content with the feeling of lack!) ... the sitting of Zazen and all life experienced as complete and whole as just the sitting of Zazen ... the entire universe manifesting itself on the Zafu at that moment ...

    ... in other words, when the "little self" is thereby put out of a job by the experience of "just sitting" as whole and complete with nothing more to be desired or needed ... then the hard borders between the "little self" and the "not the self" (which is usually being judged and "bumped into" and divided into pieces) thus naturally soften, fully fade away ... only the wholeness of the dance remaining ...

    ... then "Zazen is in itself body-mind dropped off".
    http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...inder-on-zazen

    Other little essays on the mad-sanity of Shikantaza here:

    http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/forum...IKANTAZA-ZAZEN

    Keeping a journal, dealing with issues, pondering what came to mind that day and subtly hoping to reach something "deeper" ... all this can actually be a barrier to savoring the fruit of what is just here all along.

    Gassho, J

    SatToday

    PS - Mitty, would you mind posting a human face avatar, and signing a human first name? It helps keep this place a little more human. Thank you.
    Last edited by Jundo; 07-07-2016 at 05:13 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  6. #6
    When I started sitting zazen I kept a journal for a short while but stopped when I realized two things

    1 I started sitting thinking about sitting and what I'd say in the journal when I was done
    2 I started assessing whether my sit was a "good one" or a "bad one"

    It felt very counterproductive and so I dropped it

    I should add that although I do make a comment in Insight Timer each day after sitting, I do that as a way of reinforcing the Sangha by saying I sat with all of you.

    Gassho
    Warren
    Sat today
    Last edited by Tairin; 07-07-2016 at 01:16 PM.

  7. #7
    Thanks for the comments/explanations/sharing, everyone.

    It's good to see I'm not the only one who finds journaling useful for many reasons and how even just discussing (or preparing to discuss) with others can help clarify one's thoughts.

    However, I'll read/watch/sit more about Shikantaza to get a better understanding of Shikantaza's purpose and why journaling does not fit with it specifically. Most likely there will be more questions forthcoming from me at some point.

    The Insight Timer app looks interesting too. I'll have to look into that.

    PS: Jundo, you should be able to see my name and face now.
    _/\_
    Paul

  8. #8
    I think Joyo has has a good outlook on it. When I do put words on paper it generally isn't about the meditation but other aspects of the Dharma. I have a terrible memory for words so writing down something from a book or recorded talk allows me to retain it.

    Did not sit ( neck pain) but Zazen works even on your back
    Gassho
    Marc Connery
    明岩
    Myo̅ Gan - Bright Cliff

    I put the Monkey in Monkeymind

  9. #9
    Hi,

    When I was a medical student and on rounds I was told to put down my notes and present the case from memory. The attending was the chairman of the neuropsychiatry department and said that I would remember what was important.

    I don't like the idea of a journal. If something comes up and is important you will remember it. With time the issue will probably resolve itself. If not, seek professional help if it is disturbing.

    "Don't make distinctions and he path enlightens itself." - Xin Xin Ming.

    Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

  10. #10
    Hi all

    I don't have a meditation journal but have found it helpful to journal during retreat/sesshin and Ango. During more intense periods of practice I find that stuff comes up and writing it down is useful for two reasons:

    1. Writing it down tends to stop me dwelling on it and worrying if I will forget something potentiall important
    2. It gives me a chance to look back and reflect on the experience once that period is over.

    My meditation journal would be pretty dull on a day-to-day basis with numerous entries of 'Sat. Legs hurt. Thought about what was for dinner.'

    Gassho
    Kokuu
    #sattoday (outside, surrounded by daisies, thought about what was for breakfast)

  11. #11
    As both a student of Cognitive and Transpersonal psychology there is a benefit to meditation journaling in the context of Transpersonal Meditation and Mental Phenomology. That being said I must agree with Jundo on this subject of journalling within Zen and Zazen practice. Journaling subconsciously forces you to examine your thoughts and feeling which is in opposition to the goal of Zazen.

    With most forms of Qigong meditations (both martial and medical) and Transpersonal mediation I would say yes journalling would help. But not within the parameters of Zen.

    Sent from my X9 using Tapatalk

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Yuukisugiyama View Post
    As both a student of Cognitive and Transpersonal psychology there is a benefit to meditation journaling in the context of Transpersonal Meditation and Mental Phenomology. That being said I must agree with Jundo on this subject of journalling within Zen and Zazen practice. Journaling subconsciously forces you to examine your thoughts and feeling which is in opposition to the goal of Zazen.

    With most forms of Qigong meditations (both martial and medical) and Transpersonal mediation I would say yes journalling would help. But not within the parameters of Zen.

    Sent from my X9 using Tapatalk
    Your words are big.

    Gassho, Jishin, ST

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Jishin View Post
    Your words are big.

    Gassho, Jishin, ST



    Gassho
    Myosha
    sat today
    "Recognize suffering, remove suffering." - Shakyamuni Buddha when asked, "Uhm . . .what?"

  14. #14
    Gassho Jinshin.

    I am probably the most backward and blacksheepish of practitioners here, as my practice revolves around nothing and only the chaos of nature. But this has lend me down many rabbit hole. Zen being my nucleus and my grounding wire.

    Many Gassho Jishin

    Sent from my X9 using Tapatalk

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Yuukisugiyama View Post
    Gassho Jinshin.

    I am probably the most backward and blacksheepish of practitioners here, as my practice revolves around nothing and only the chaos of nature. But this has lend me down many rabbit hole. Zen being my nucleus and my grounding wire.

    Many Gassho Jishin

    Sent from my X9 using Tapatalk
    Hi,

    I think you are perfect as you are. But that doesn't mean I want to pick up a psychology book and a dictionary to exchange ideas. I rather puff on a Cuban while chitchatting with you.

    Gassho, Jishin, ST

  16. #16
    Lol that would be my conversation, I prefer Jungian thought over boring academic, clinical or Freudian thought.

    Sent from my X9 using Tapatalk

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Yuukisugiyama View Post
    Lol that would be my conversation, I prefer Jungian thought over boring academic, clinical or Freudian thought.

    Sent from my X9 using Tapatalk
    Psychology is fine. Lots of people here like to talk about it, particularly since Buddhism and psychology share a lot of ideas. Lots of people that hang out here work in academics/clinical setting regarding psychology. I don't like it since I use it all day long at work - I am a psychiatrist. I rather be a silly willy with my funny-not-so-funny zen talk.

    Gassho, Jishin, ST

  18. #18
    Lol. I just was certified in Jungian Psychotherapy, but I'm most interested in dreams, symbols and non-thingness. My life has been a journey that is now condensing down to my spiritual practice on one hand and my practice (rather study of) TCM, transpersonal psychology, the martial arts and various meditations.

    I hope in time to distill my passions in an effort to help sentient being even if it be one tiny ant to escape samsara.

    Sent from my X9 using Tapatalk

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Our small self, the body-mind, is always filled with countless desires ... the desire to be somewhere else, be getting somewhere, achieving some prize, some distant goal. Our body-mind is always judging this or that as somehow inadequate to what the body-mind wants, its likes and dislikes, needs, regrets and dreams.

    Thus, when there is sat an instant of Zazen as wholeness in just sitting, the only place to be and act to do in that instant in all of reality that is required to fulfill life as life
    Thank you for this teaching, Jundo.

    Deep bows,
    Matt
    #SatToday

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Yuukisugiyama View Post
    Jungian Psychotherapy
    I been looking for Carl for a while. If you find him be sure to tell him I like to get grab some tea with him. You are invited too off course.

    Gassho, Jishin, ST

  21. #21
    Hi Jishin,

    What is the difference between practicing psychiatry and chopping wood?

  22. #22
    Also,

    Sat today.

    Gassho,

    Paul

  23. #23

    Anyone ever used a meditation journal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitty-san View Post
    Hi Jishin,

    What is the difference between practicing psychiatry and chopping wood?
    If I say different I am attached to form.

    If I say same I am attached to intellectual emptiness.

    If I don't answer I am either ignorant or know true emptiness.

    If I say practicing psychiatry is just practicing psychiatry, not one thing missing. I give a true answer. Just like the sky is blue and the grass is green.

    If I say chopping wood is just chopping wood, not one thing missing. I give a true answer. Just like the water is wet and clouds are white.

    If I answer with appropriate action then I utilize truth for the benefit of sentient beings. I decrease suffering by being a doctor and I chop wood to stay warm so I can help sentient beings.

    Which answer do you want?

    Be careful how you answer.

    Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_
    Last edited by Jishin; 07-20-2016 at 02:00 PM.

  24. #24

    yep

    Hello,

    Funniest "As-if" thread ever.

    Thank you.

    Gassho
    Myosha
    sat today
    "Recognize suffering, remove suffering." - Shakyamuni Buddha when asked, "Uhm . . .what?"

  25. #25

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Jishin View Post
    If I say different I am attached to form.

    If I say same I am attached to intellectual emptiness.

    If I don't answer I am either ignorant or know true emptiness.

    If I say practicing psychiatry is just practicing psychiatry, not one thing missing. I give a true answer. Just like the sky is blue and the grass is green.

    If I say chopping wood is just chopping wood, not one thing missing. I give a true answer. Just like the water is wet and clouds are white.

    If I answer with appropriate action then I utilize truth for the benefit of sentient beings. I decrease suffering by being a doctor and I chop wood to stay warm so I can help sentient beings.

    Which answer do you want?

    Be careful how you answer.

    Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_
    Hi Jishin,

    I think the best answer is all of this.

    Or perhaps I should say your answer is just your answer.

    In a less Zennish sense perhaps, I suppose I can relate. After writing software all day I'm ready for a change of pace, such as learning about Psychology. I suppose someone who chops wood all day wouldn't mind practicing psychiatry or writing software in their free time too. A rancher might spend the weekend in their townhome. While someone who lives in the city might want to escape for the weekend. I suppose that's why everything is just what it is.

    PS: Perhaps this will suffice for your Carl Jung tea party: https://www.amazon.com/Carl-Finger-P...9075821&sr=8-3

    ,

    Paul

    Sat today.
    _/\_
    Paul

  27. #27
    Hi Paul,

    I think keeping a meditation journal is fine at the very first days of zazen practice. Not because we need it for the practice per se, but just to tell the mind that the new activity has come and it's time to adapt to discipline.

    Back in the day, when I was a teenager and started sitting, I kept a journal. I think that lasted for about a week. Then I simply dropped the interest.

    About shikantaza, I agree with the wise folks here, maybe is not that useful.

    Gassho,

    Kyonin
    #SatToday
    Hondō Kyōnin
    奔道 協忍

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Mitty-san View Post
    Hi Paul,

    I like Carl's finger puppet very much.

    Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Mitty-san View Post
    Hello everyone,

    Has anyone ever kept a meditation journal? From my experience and Psychology research I've seen it can be super helpful in better understanding and moving past any issues that recur during meditation, whether related to problems in life that keep clouding the mind during Zazen or issues more directly related to the meditation practice itself. However, I haven't heard of it specifically in the Soto Zen tradition. Perhaps it's one of those things some people do but it's not emphasized in Soto Zen.

    Gassho _/\_
    I have never created one. It is useless and only feeds the ego.

    Kyle,
    Sat2day

    Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk

  30. #30
    Thanks for the additional comments on journaling.

    When I first started with a meditation journal, everything was about my meditation experiences, but slowly more-and-more it became journaling about the content of my thoughts during meditation, especially the stronger recurring ones. Eventually, I didn't really write anything about the meditation and it just became a regular journal I'd write in whenever. It drifted into what a lot of you have recommended.

    In a more general sense though, like some of you, my memory isn't the best so if something seemingly important pops up, making a quick note of it somewhere can get it out of my head quickly.

    Jishin, there used to be a Jung action figure on Amazon too. One of my Psychologist friends would battle his Jung and Sigmund Freud action figures. Jung would rip the oedipus out of Siggy.

    Gassho,

    Paul

    Sat Today on this SATurday.
    _/\_
    Paul

  31. #31
    Cyd
    Guest
    Thanks Jundo

    Me personally journaling especially for sitting
    what is there to write about?

    Gassho
    Cyd
    Sattoday
    Last edited by Cyd; 07-25-2016 at 08:34 PM.

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