Does anyone else find this exchange with Konan both confusing and disturbing? I believe that everyone here has the utmost respect for all nationalities and cultures. Is it a question of language that is causing some tension? I am grateful that Jundo can help by communicating in Konan's native language. I lived in Japan for 15+ years and have the greatest respect for the culture and the people but what does this have to do with Zen Buddhism?
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Hmmmmm.Originally Posted by Joko
I will say this, reflecting on my 27 years in Japan. Sure, there is a very common cultural bias here about such things (I am not commenting specifically about what Mr. K. wrote, but a general societal propensity), and some feeling in Japan that "only Japanese" (not even the Chinese, although they are the source of the Zen school) really can understand "Zen". Same for some other traditions ranging from Tea Ceremony to Sumo wrestling.
And you know, they are right! Yes, when it comes to certain aspects of Japanese style Zen Practice, they may be correct. Only a society that can do so well something like this, for example ...
... can understand the power of throwing oneself body&mind into a Zen Ceremony like so (please watch a couple of minutes from the 4:45 mark) ...
... or the precision of the Tea Ceremony (you should watch all if you have the time) ...
Although, that is not really true for I know many foreigners here in Japan who have become masters of such arts, and the elegant precision of such ceremonies (I am certainly not one, being more a master of "Klutz Zen").
But ya know, I believe that Zen as it has come to the West has also developed a power, vibrancy, creativity, understanding of history and even of the meaning of the Teachings of the school that may be uncommon here in Japan. On this latter point, one has to know something about the educational system here, including within many of the Buddhist universities and monasteries, which can be very rote, one dimensional and "one ear out the other" among students, many of whom are only young kids trying to get through the monastery as fast as they can to take over their dad's temple (temples are inherited these days in Japan, mostly biological father to son). There is also a stagnating emphasis on Ceremony and Funerals, and little on Zazen or the intellectual side of Zen, which is very much not the case at most Zen Centers in the west. Many experienced people in America and Europe these days are more focused on Zazen (the vast majority of Zen temples, Rinzai and Soto, in Japan have no Zazen group, and only 20% of Japanese Zen priests profess to maintain a sitting habit after leaving the monastery and taking over the family temple), and the westerners may know more deeply about the history, stories and tenets than even many Japanese priests! Truly.
Many of the changes as Buddhism comes West and into modern times may simply be seen as adjustments to fit different cultures and times, some are truly revolutionary, while others may not prove to have been good. Only time will tell. I sometimes say ...
Now, that being said ... I know Americans are just as chauvinistic about, well "AMERICA!" (just attend a Donald Trump rally to see), Spanish people about Flamenco guitar, French people about French cooking (some of the best French chefs in the world these days are not French ... including lots of Japanese) ...In some important ways, sincere lay practitioners today may enjoy better surrounding circumstances for practice than did the average monk in, for example, Dogen's day. Things in the "Golden Age" were not so golden as we too easily romanticize. Most monks back then were half-educated (even in Buddhism), semi-literate (or what passed for literacy in those times), superstition driven, narrow folks who may have understood less about the traditions and teachings they were following ... their history and meaning and depth ... than we now know. The conditions for practice within old temples and monasteries might have been less than ideal, many teachers less than ideal, despite our idealization of the old timers. Studying Sutras by smoky oil lamp, living one's days out in Japan or Tibet while having no real information grasp on China and India and the customs of prior centuries, living in a world of rumor and magic and misunderstanding (in which all kinds of myths and stories and superstitions were taken as explanations for how the world works), unable to access a modern Buddhist library, or to "Google" a reliable source (emphasis on making sure it is reliable however!) to check some point, or to ask a real expert outside one's limited circle, being beholden to only one teacher at a time (no matter how poor a teacher), with no knowledge of the human brain and some very important discoveries of science ... and after all that effort ... getting sick and dying at the age of 40 from some ordinary fever. (Can you even imagine trying to listen to Dogen Zenji recite "live" a Shobogenzo teaching from way across the room ... without a modern microphone and PA system and "Youtube" to let one replay it all? I suppose many never heard a word!)
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7001f030-4...#axzz3zpBk6T2Z
(maybe that emphasis on ritual and precision has something to do with it?) ...
... including cooking new forms of hybrid Japonaise-Francaise fusion nouvelle cuisine that is simply magnificent, taking the best of all possible worlds.
Perhaps we are cooking a hybrid "fusion nouvelle Zen". So what? DELICIOUS!
Gassho, J
SatToday (on the Zafu which has no east or west).
PS - Foreigners have given a polite "kick in the butt" to the dusty and declining Sumo world as well ..
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/201.../#.Vrv6r7J96Uk
Last edited by Jundo; 02-11-2016 at 04:00 AM.
ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
Thank you for explaining, Jundo.
I noticed you didn't add Canadians to that list. We do get pretty uptight about certain "Canadian" things like flannel shifts, hockey, and mounties.
Gassho,
Joyo
sat today
You got that right eh! LOLThank you for explaining, Jundo.
I noticed you didn't add Canadians to that list. We do get pretty uptight about certain "Canadian" things like flannel shifts, hockey, and mounties.
Gassho,
Joyo
sat today
keep-calm-its-canada-eh-2.jpg
Gassho
Shingen
#sattoday
I almost added this guy, who I got to know through the internet ... and because he shares my name ...
... famous Canadian flamenco guitarist James Cohen ...
... and yes, they are a bit "fusion" too ...
... and ain't that magifico!
Gassho, J
SatToday con Duende!
Last edited by Jundo; 02-11-2016 at 03:55 AM.
ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
That is awesome ... we just have to get you a hat like that too!
Gassho
Shingen
#sattoday
A word to everyone here, please ...
Be gentle with Mr. K. You already are, but I sense some desire to protect me or Treeleaf. Be gentle here. Some may want to be responding sharply out of a desire to react, but I think Mr K is hurting a bit. A friendly smile would be better.
Gassho, Jundo
ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
Doshin
Sattoday
To answer the original question, I felt I wanted to learn more about Zen, and I found it resonates with me, regardless of cultural bias. There is no place for me to go to a physical Zendo that is convenient to my life. Now that I am here I am not sure I would join another Sangha. I have met and sat with some of you in real-life, and I have sat with some of you online. I don't feel a difference. Sitting is sitting, and if you think there is a difference or that difference is very important, maybe you need to sit some more. I have met Jundo in real life, and I have conversed with him and many others here. My deeper discussions have been here, where people tend to take time before they respond to something. Frankly, I think I learn more here on this forum and more quickly, than I would ever be able to in a real life Zendo.
All of life everywhere is our temple, Japan, the United States, Europe, and yes sadly even CanadaYou sit where you sit, you learn where you are. I am not trying to be Japanese and I am not trying to be American either, I am trying to be myself, even while loosing myself.
Gassho
Ishin
#Sat Today
Last edited by Ishin; 02-11-2016 at 11:08 PM.
Well said, Ishin.
Gassho
Washin sat-today
... please remember Doshin/Dan in Israel, too.
Anshu, Indonesia.
Hands up from Australia/New Zeeland? Geoff??
At least one from Vulcan, it seems?
Many people in many places, beautiful.
Gassho
Jika
#sattoday
治 Ji
花 Ka
Oh no..! poor Canada
and yes sadly even Canada
#Sat Today
Gassho, Kyotai
sat today
Jundo,
Thank you so much for providing so much context about the nature of Buddhism and its many forms throughout history. Rebirth takes on so many forms and the illiterate, non-learned, non-sitting Buddhist monks and funeral directors of the past present and future most certainly deserve our respect just as much as we revere Dogen, or Hui Neng, or Bodhidharma, or Shakyamuni Buddha. It's insane how much information on can get on Buddhism through the Internet. From the comfort of our rich western lives we can amass a huge collection of texts and resources. We may fool ourselves into thinking we have the best conditions for Buddhist practice. But that's foolish. Buddhism is worthless if it isn't transmitted from heart to heart over time. Not text to text. Or Internet thread to Internet thread. Heart to heart comes in many non-forms. All connected through causes and conditions.
The causes and conditions that brought all of us here to Treeleaf are just that, causes and conditions. Causes and conditions sent many people into many Buddhist temples for many reasons. Not all of those reasons were to practice Buddhism. But does that matter? Temples in and of themselves don't matter in the grand scheme of things just as being a monk or a layperson doesn't either. It's all a matter of rebirth. Where you've been, where you're at, where you're going. Even the most ignorant monk who never thinks of Buddha is still Buddha, keeping the Buddha's name on the tongues of all who come across him, setting the stage for a favorable rebirth somewhere, sometime, somehow. If we are fortunate to find ourselves in such a rebirth we should be grateful. Nothing more.
In the hearts and minds of people Buddhism is alive because it is in our hearts and minds. It got there how it got there because of causes and conditions. Maybe we are better Buddhists because we have read more and sit everyday. Maybe we are terrible Buddhists because we aren't from countries that have a cultural backdrop and history that pierces the dharma most honestly. Maybe we read too much and we don't know what we're talking about. Maybe we are liberated from meaningless ceremonies and can really get to the meat of what this way of life is all about.
We definitely think about ourselves too much. I know I do.
In reality it's up to our own experience and the sincerity of our hearts. Is there anything else to go on? I sit everyday, I recite the nembutsu and I'm grateful for it. That's all.
Gassho
Sat Today
So well spoken, Byrne. Thank you.
All in this universe are connected, a place in the sun for all. Banker or bus driver, priest conducting funerals or leading Zazen, grasses and trees, sun and moon ... all have their place. Even the black hat villains may play a role.
Thank you for the reminder.
Funerals are important, indispensable, as they play a vital role in easing peoples' suffering and bonding families together. Temples are the glue that hold community together at such times. If there is any "problem" in Japan, it is merely that things may be out of balance ... Zazen almost forgotten such that the general public associates Buddhism almost exclusively with funerals. That is a shame, and much of the power and beauty of this Way is lost to people because it is so.
Gassho, Jundo
Last edited by Jundo; 02-12-2016 at 07:09 PM.
ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE
Thank you Byrne. Very eloquently stated.
Gassho,
Risho
-sattoday
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