When dropping "hurts"

[Ugrok]

Hello !

I have two questions about shikantaza that arose in my practice lately.

First : i noticed that i can actively drop thoughts. Which means that when i notice that i'm diving into a story, i can just stop. But i also noticed that it can happen on its own : the story stops and there is no "thought action" to stop it from me. I wonder what is the "good" attitude towards this ? Should i actively stop the stories when i notice i'm in it, or should i just let it stop by itself ? In the end, i feel it's a bit of the same, because anyway i don't control and can't control the moment when i notice that i'm thinking... So it's a kind of active passivity.

Second : when i drop thoughts, or story, often, it hurts. Not a lot. But it doesn't feel good. It doesn't feel open or spacious, well, yeah it does on a certain level, but i feel it tightens my chest (which in turns creates more story, ahah). Is that normal ? I have two thoughts about this : we are so attached to our little stories that dropping them is painful or can be painful ; or, those stories act like a protection against the naked reality, which is hard to see face to face, so dropping them hurts.

Any advice / thoughts ?

Sorry if this has been adressed somewhere else !

Gassho,

Ugrok

[Jundo]

Hello !

I have two questions about shikantaza that arose in my practice lately.

First : i noticed that i can actively drop thoughts. Which means that when i notice that i'm diving into a story, i can just stop. But i also noticed that it can happen on its own : the story stops and there is no "thought action" to stop it from me. I wonder what is the "good" attitude towards this ? Should i actively stop the stories when i notice i'm in it, or should i just let it stop by itself ?

I do no believe it matters. If finding oneself in the middle of a story during Zazen, just put it/allow such to float aside.

Second : when i drop thoughts, or story, often, it hurts. Not a lot. But it doesn't feel good. It doesn't feel open or spacious, well, yeah it does on a certain level, but i feel it tightens my chest (which in turns creates more story, ahah). Is that normal ? I have two thoughts about this : we are so attached to our little stories that dropping them is painful or can be painful ; or, those stories act like a protection against the naked reality, which is hard to see face to face, so dropping them hurts.

Try to change your attitude to something clear, open, spacious. It should not tighten your chest, so please just relax. It could be that, like that feeling one gets when at the top of the roller-coaster, you are expecting a big drop into nothingness. Relax. Feel instead that one is in a boat on a lake, clear blue above and clear blue in the waters all around, a lovely summer day.

Most importantly, sit as if being right there ... in that boat, in this moment ... were the only place to be in the whole universe, no other place or activity needed in that moment in time. Sky, blue, water, boat and you as one.

By the way, the purpose of Zazen is not to always be completely without thought, because sometimes there is not a cloud in the sky and sometimes the story clouds return. When they return, we just do not grab on and let them float on away. A bright, boundless, clarity manifests like that summer sky.

But eventually one hopefully will find that, when the stories (life problems etc). do return, the bright clear boundless sky shines right behind/through/as the stories and problems themselves. Then, we do not encounter the stories in the same way we did before Zazen. Suddenly, the stories and problems are illuminated, and also open and boundless. One then still has problems but somehow, simultaneously, what problem and no problem! There are stories and no story.

Gassho, J

[Ugrok]

Thank you very much for the answer.

It could be that, like that feeling one gets when at the top of the roller-coaster, you are expecting a big drop into nothingness.

Yes, it's this feeling exactly. Fear of the unknown and of disappearing into nothingness. Even if i think i begin to understand that in fact there is no "nothingness" to disappear into.

Thanks a lot.

Gassho,

Ugrok

[Nindo]

But eventually one hopefully will find that, when the stories (life problems etc). do return, the bright clear boundless sky shines right behind/through/as the stories and problems themselves. Then, we do not encounter the stories in the same way we did before Zazen. Suddenly, the stories and problems are illuminated, and also open and boundless. One then still has problems but somehow, simultaneously, what problem and no problem! There are stories and no story.

Gassho, J

Simple words, very helpful.
Thank you.