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Thread: Consuming alcohol

  1. #1
    Junior Member Tin_Sandwich's Avatar
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    Consuming alcohol

    Hi,

    I gave up drinking for five years and only started again last Christmas. I have never been a heavy drinker, a couple of pints at the most and I've had enough. Is it better to avoid alcohol altogether while practicing on the Buddhist path. I would not be adversed to stop consuming alcohol if this would be more benificial to my practice. Please share your thoughts on this.

    Gassho

  2. #2
    You don't have to worry if the bite of a snake is poisonous if you don't pick up the snake.

    Gassho, Jishin
    治 Ji
    心​ Shin

  3. #3
    Senior Member Troy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jishin View Post
    You don't have to worry if the bite of a snake is poisonous if you don't pick up the snake.

    Gassho, Jishin
    Love that quote!

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Jishin View Post
    You don't have to worry if the bite of a snake is poisonous if you don't pick up the snake.
    Nicely said. Gassho.

  5. #5



    Gassho,
    Danny

  6. #6
    Senior Member Joyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jishin View Post
    You don't have to worry if the bite of a snake is poisonous if you don't pick up the snake.

    Gassho, Jishin
    Nice!!! I think it's again, like eating meat, a personal choice. But I'd agree with Jishin, for me personally, I don't touch the stuff. Just not my thing

    Gassho,
    Joyo

  7. #7
    Senior Member Clark's Avatar
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    For me the issue is avoidance of intoxication. In moderation ok. If even in moderation, you cause problems then stop.
    Gassho
    C

  8. #8
    Hi All,

    I'll have a cocktail once in a while or a little wine with dinner. Never been a problem for me. I have seen many lives absolutely ruined by alchohol, though. The issue of intoxication is an interesting one, not sure if you want to go into it on this thread, but intoxication takes many forms.

    Gassho
    Lisa

  9. #9
    Treeleaf Engineer Seimyo's Avatar
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    We are not in a practice of deprivation, but of moderation.

    While intoxication isn't recommended, the occasional pint or two isn't likely to send your practice into a tailspin (unless of course you have a pre-existing relationship with addiction). Just take note of when you feel altered and limit yourself.

    Gassho
    Seimyo

    明 Seimyō (Christhatischris)

  10. #10
    Senior Member Nengyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tin_Sandwich View Post
    Hi,

    I gave up drinking for five years and only started again last Christmas. I have never been a heavy drinker, a couple of pints at the most and I've had enough. Is it better to avoid alcohol altogether while practicing on the Buddhist path. I would not be adversed to stop consuming alcohol if this would be more benificial to my practice. Please share your thoughts on this.

    Gassho
    I would say just follow the middle way. I try not to get caught up in excesses, but of course only you can find your middle way. Maybe it is a drink or two every night, drinking with friends occasionally, or never drinking. I still drink alcohol occasionally and eat meat. I try to do so in the most ecologically sound way possible and without causing others too much harm.

    Gassho,
    Nengyo
    Try not to be a jerk-- one of the Buddhas

  11. #11
    Senior Member Shawn's Avatar
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    Hello,

    I love a beer every now and again. Sometimes (rarely) I have more then a few. For me, once and a while works for me.

    Gassho, Shawn
    I am a student at Treeleaf. Please take what I say with a grain of salt. Gassho

  12. #12
    Treeleaf Unsui/Engineer Kyonin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jishin View Post
    You don't have to worry if the bite of a snake is poisonous if you don't pick up the snake.

    Gassho, Jishin
    This has to be one of the most smartest quotes ever. It speaks my mind.

    Thank you.

    Gassho,

    Kyonin
    Please remember I am only a priest in training. I could be wrong in everything I say. Slap me if needed.

    The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one. Mr. Spock

  13. #13
    Treeleaf Unsui Yugen's Avatar
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    Consuming alcohol

    I'm a vegetarian and teetotaler who enjoys the occasional steak and pint of stout.

    Deep bows
    Yugen
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Please take all my comments with a grain of salt - I am a novice priest and anything I say is to be taken with a good dose of skepticism - Shodo Yugen

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Jishin View Post
    You don't have to worry if the bite of a snake is poisonous if you don't pick up the snake.

    Gassho, Jishin
    Wow! Can't top that ... =)

    Gassho
    Shingen

    P.S. I am a vegan and don't drink, but that is a personal choice. =)
    倫道 真現

    As a trainee priest, please take any commentary by me on matters of the Dharma with a pinch of salt.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Nengyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jishin View Post
    You don't have to worry if the bite of a snake is poisonous if you don't pick up the snake.

    Gassho, Jishin
    Some of us can't imagine a life without picking up snakes! (literal and metaphorical)


    Quote Originally Posted by Yugen View Post
    I'm a vegetarian and teetotaler who enjoys the occasional steak and pint of stout.

    Deep bows
    Yugen
    Try not to be a jerk-- one of the Buddhas

  16. #16
    Senior Member Clark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yugen View Post
    I'm a vegetarian and teetotaler who enjoys the occasional steak and pint of stout.

    Deep bows
    Yugen

    Gassho
    C

  17. #17
    Senior Member Clark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raindrop View Post
    Hi All,

    I'll have a cocktail once in a while or a little wine with dinner. Never been a problem for me. I have seen many lives absolutely ruined by alchohol, though. The issue of intoxication is an interesting one, not sure if you want to go into it on this thread, but intoxication takes many forms.

    Gassho
    Lisa
    Agreed and I think avoiding intoxication IS the point. Hard to be mindful when you are buzzed and or addicted.

    buddha.jpg

    Gassho
    C

  18. #18
    Treeleaf Unsui Dosho's Avatar
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    Tin,

    I don't drink at all (haven't had any alcohol for over 10 years!), but would never say that one should never drink to walk the Buddhist path; it would be rather hypocritical of me to say so!

    It is really about not abusing alcohol, not about swearing off all alcohol forever. Middle way.

    Gassho,
    Dosho

    P.S. Perhaps I should have just a little bit of wine. I seem to be clinging to that 10 year thing.
    Ordained Priest -In-Training
    Please take what I say with a grain of salt,
    especially in matters of the Dharma!

  19. #19
    Yes, avoiding intoxication, and finding the middle way.


    Many things can be intoxicating besides alchohol: sex, drugs, gambling, video games, love, books, movies, helping other people... almost anything really. To me intoxication is about that feeling of exhilaration, fascination, and immediately wanting more. Itís something that takes you away from an immediate experience of now. Itís about desire and craving, and avoidance, and also attachment, I think.


    But of course the original question was about alcohol, so maybe what Iím talking about is for a different thread.

    Gassho
    Lisa

  20. #20
    So many wise comments.

    For some, even a drop is poison. For others, drinking in small doses and moderation is no problem at all, and may even lengthen life expectancy.

    But do not drink before or during Zazen. One need not cloud the mind to taste Reality.

    I have been to a few parties in Japan, including a cup filling karaoke singing wing ding with the Abbot of Sojiji Head Temple in Japan to mark the end of the year. A time for everything.

    If you are not sure about your own abilities to handle moderation, than none is probably the best course.

    Gassho, Jundo
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

    #SAT TODAY!

  21. #21
    Treeleaf Unsui rculver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yugen View Post
    I'm a vegetarian and teetotaler who enjoys the occasional steak and pint of stout.

    Deep bows
    Yugen
    Perfect!
    As a priest in training, please take everything I say with a pinch of salt

    Meido Shugen
    明道 修眼

  22. #22
    I believe its best not to cloud our mind, however, sometimes - far from often - it seems a good whisky or a glass of wine rather clears up things. However, I may be deluded about his.
    Gassho
    Myoku

  23. #23
    Senior Member Sekishi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    For some, even a drop is poison. For others, drinking in small doses and moderation is no problem at all, and may even lengthen life expectancy.
    I suspect every one of us knows someone for whom even a drop is poison. Nobody suffers from addiction in complete isolation. The suffering touches spouses, children, and friends.

    I feel very lucky that alcohol does not hold much allure for me. I can enjoy a glass a few times a year, or not, it does not matter much. However, in my experience, most social gatherings involve nearly ubiquitous drinking. It is a social lubricant I guess, lowering the walls that most of us spend our lives building up. If ten to fifteen people are together in a room, statistically it is likely at that at least one of them is an alcoholic (recovering or not). So in any social situation, I choose not to drink (even a little), because there may be others in the room for whom even a drop is poison. Having another person present who chooses not to drink may help them avoid that first drop.

    For me personally, "just a little drink" would keep the precept on intoxication, but "not a single drop" keeps the precept on devotion to Sangha (in the wider sense) if it helps someone who must abstain.

    Gassho,
    Sekishi

    髭 Sekishi / Eric

  24. #24
    So in any social situation, I choose not to drink (even a little), because there may be others in the room for whom even a drop is poison. Having another person present who chooses not to drink may help them avoid that first drop.
    Hi Sekishi,

    wow, I never thought of that. What a wonderful way to support someone, knowingly or unknowingly. I will keep this in mind in future. Thank you!

    Gassho
    Lisa

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by raindrop View Post
    Hi Sekishi,

    wow, I never thought of that. What a wonderful way to support someone, knowingly or unknowingly. I will keep this in mind in future. Thank you!

    Gassho
    Lisa
    I second that Sekishi, a good though, will try to keep it in mind!
    Gassho and thank you
    Myoku

  26. #26
    Senior Member Joyo's Avatar
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    Books???? Ok Lisa, that's just taking it too far

    Gassho,
    Joyo

  27. #27
    Sekishi,

    thank you very much, you've helped me.
    I never liked to drink alcohol (don't like the taste), and I shouldn't (medical reasons). So this fits well for me, but others often see me as a spoil sport, and I feel bad about that.
    Your observation it might eventually be helping someone else is a big relieve.

    Gassho,
    Danny

    PS: Lisa, is there a self help group for people who are attached to this Sangha??
    Are the three jewels in themselves breaking the precepts?
    Last edited by Danny B; 08-25-2014 at 06:40 PM. Reason: Only half joking

  28. #28
    Joyo, good excuse to burn that guilt-inducing list of half a million books people have recommended!

    Danny, yes, there is a group, and we are meeting at the pub for cocktails!


    Lisa

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Jishin View Post
    You don't have to worry if the bite of a snake is poisonous if you don't pick up the snake.

    Gassho, Jishin
    "You KNEWED I was a snake when you put me in your pocket!"

    Gassho,
    Lee

  30. #30
    Danny, yes, there is a group, and we are meeting at the pub for cocktails!
    Awesome.


    Gassho,
    Danny

  31. #31
    I think that it’s a personal choice, and not drinking does not make one a better Buddhist. I don’t drink at all because I don’t need to, or feel like it, but others should do as they wish. I don’t think it is a good idea however to take anything that clouds the mind, and if I were to drink, I would not drink before practice. But then again practice is an all day long affair for me so I guess that means I better not drink

  32. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Sekishi View Post
    I suspect every one of us knows someone for whom even a drop is poison. Nobody suffers from addiction in complete isolation. The suffering touches spouses, children, and friends.

    I feel very lucky that alcohol does not hold much allure for me. I can enjoy a glass a few times a year, or not, it does not matter much. However, in my experience, most social gatherings involve nearly ubiquitous drinking. It is a social lubricant I guess, lowering the walls that most of us spend our lives building up. If ten to fifteen people are together in a room, statistically it is likely at that at least one of them is an alcoholic (recovering or not). So in any social situation, I choose not to drink (even a little), because there may be others in the room for whom even a drop is poison. Having another person present who chooses not to drink may help them avoid that first drop.

    For me personally, "just a little drink" would keep the precept on intoxication, but "not a single drop" keeps the precept on devotion to Sangha (in the wider sense) if it helps someone who must abstain.

    Gassho,
    Sekishi
    Thank you Sekishi. Just what I needed to hear.
    Sometimes the Middle Way in our society means more than an apparent balancing of our desires.
    Becoming aware of suffering around us is part of awakening, part of the practice.

    In gassho.
    Last edited by Ed; 08-27-2014 at 01:18 PM.
    "Know that the practice of zazen is the complete path of buddha-dharma and nothing can be compared to it....it is not the practice of one or two buddhas but all the buddha ancestors practice this way."
    Dogen zenji in Bendowa






  33. #33
    Senior Member Daijo's Avatar
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    Again, I think it's a very complicated issue. Personally, I used to drink quite regularly, now I rarely drink. But I still do enjoy a nice whiskey from time to time, or a couple or four beers if the occasion is appropriate. On face value, I think that's fine. Of course only the individual person knows whether or not they can or cannot drink without creating problems. If you're honest with yourself, you will know the answer.

    Scratch the surface though, and I think it can be much more complicated than using self control. I know I grew up in an environment that taught me drinking was "normal". Alcohol was always around me, so naturally I was conditioned to think it was what everyone did. Drink. Every day. So the question arises, if I drink, even in moderation, how is it perceived and understood by my children? And do they, or will they, have the fortitude to drink moderately? By drinking responsibly, am I causing harm to others? What if my moderate one whiskey is had in front of a stranger who happens to be an alcoholic? Do my actions effect her resolve? These are the arising questions that lay beneath the surface of "not intoxicating the mind" for me. Don't we have to take into consideration, "who's mind?" and remember that we are "not two."

    These are only questions. I'm not pretending to know the answers, but it's definitely something I try to think about whenever I say to myself "I could go for a nice single malt right about now".

    Deep bows,

    Daijo

  34. #34
    Senior Member Troy's Avatar
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    Everyone's experience is different, but I really have a dislike for any intoxicating chemical. I personally have a lot of anger towards drugs and alcohol and most certainly see it as a poison. I know first hand how abuse can damage our bodies, destroy our emotional well being, cause us to hurt those we love, sever important relationships, and so much more. My problem was more with drugs, but I do not consider alcohol abuse any different. I know most people don't have problems with addiction, so like I said everyone's experience different and I don't judge others. I just have a lot of unresolved anger about this topic.

  35. #35
    Many thanks for all the advice!

    Gassho
    ~ Please remember that I am very fallible.

    Gassho
    Aske
    #SAT TODAY!

  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Daijo View Post
    Scratch the surface though, and I think it can be much more complicated than using self control. I know I grew up in an environment that taught me drinking was "normal". Alcohol was always around me, so naturally I was conditioned to think it was what everyone did. Drink. Every day. So the question arises, if I drink, even in moderation, how is it perceived and understood by my children? And do they, or will they, have the fortitude to drink moderately? By drinking responsibly, am I causing harm to others? What if my moderate one whiskey is had in front of a stranger who happens to be an alcoholic? Do my actions effect her resolve? These are the arising questions that lay beneath the surface of "not intoxicating the mind" for me. Don't we have to take into consideration, "who's mind?" and remember that we are "not two."
    Thanks, Daijo.

    Your words reflect pretty much of my particular experience.
    Honestly I never bothered before to think if my drinking could affect others than my directly related ones.
    I never had addiction issues, but in my teens and part of my adult life, hard drinking was culturally seen (mostly among friends) as a men attribute.
    I've started to question that only a short time ago.

    How did you flick the switch? You can PM me if you prefer, or not answer at all.

    Gassho,
    Walter.

  37. #37
    Senior Member Daijo's Avatar
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    I think the natural response is to divert the attention to a healthier addiction. That might not sound like good advice from a Buddhist context, but in truth, we evolved to be addictive creatures. Our brains have an addictive function. The trick is navigating in the world knowing the difference between healthy addictions and unhealthy addictions.

    If you place a child in a room alone with a chocolate cake, and if they have a reference point for chocolate cake, and tell them not to eat it they're going to struggle. Most times, after a few moments go by, they're going to taste that cake. Some of them will try to find some other way to occupy their minds, in order to stop thinking about the cake. So the addictive trait is hardwired in us all.

    What I did was replace my habitual drinking with habitual weight lifting. I don't obsess about it, because the chemical reaction in my brain isnt as strong as sugar or alcohol would be. But it does divert the addictive power of the mind to something else. Zazen also acts as a replacement.

    Plus, when you think "If I drink, etc... I will ruin my work out, or I wont be able to sit zazen" It creates incentive to abstain.

  38. #38
    Thank you Daijo for your words. I feel my experience has been very similar to yours. And as a result I've been weening myself off of alcohol for awhile now.


    Addiction, as you pointed out, is hardwired. The impulsive, grasping part of the brain (like the midbrain dopamine system and others) is old (we share it with all mammals) and a very powerful motivator of behavior. But it evolved to help us survive and we can't live without it. Sometimes this system can go out of control, particularly with drugs, alcohol, or gambling which makes it constantly shift attentional resources back to getting the source of the original rush--it's why simply a picture or seeing someone else do something can trigger a strong craving in an addict. So why are we not all addicts?


    Humans have the benefit of newer executive functions in the prefrontal cortex that can keep these behaviors in check. These systems help keep an eye on long term effects and can rationalize, "Hey I've got stuff to do tomorrow so maybe I shouldn't drink." For many, many people this system of checks and balances keeps them from plunging into addiction. But sometimes the target (alcohol etc) can create such a strong reward signal that over time (or less if a person has an addictive predisposition) it will overpower your executive functions and keep you locked in a behavioral loop (i.e. addiction). These competing systems make it clear that you can consciously not like your addiction and really want to quit, but easily relapse into the same behavior (this is not to say that individuals are always helpless or absolved of responsibility for their addictions, but I do think it means addicts are in need of a lot of compassion and support).


    What has always been interesting to me is that this breakdown is not usually due to a breakdown in the reward system. It is doing exactly what eons of evolution trained it to do. It's usually that our executive functions aren't strong enough to pry the grip of the reward system off of our behavior after they've been trained to like something.


    In short, this is why I've been weening myself off of alcohol because I think my reward system has been left dysfunctional from years of "casual drinking". The original novelty and enjoyment of even a glass of wine has long worn off because I've trained my brain to pursue it as a reward, which by definition will elude satisfaction. Learning to see into myself I know that I'm precipitously close to a single drop being poison.


    The biggest help I've had comes from sitting Zazen. Being able to see my impulses rising and falling in my brain clearly, without judgment, has made it easier to see the attentional quicksand before I mindlessly wander into it. But Metta too also is very important, as you guys have mentioned, just someone seeing you drink may cause them to fall into a behavioral trap.


    I hope this helps. With gratitude.


    Gassho,
    Jeff

  39. #39
    Thanks Jeff.
    Thanks all.

    This thread is very helpful. It has helped me see things in a way I never did.

    Gassho,
    Walter.

  40. #40
    Senior Member Daijo's Avatar
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    Very nice discussion. Thank you all.

    Gassho,

    Daijo

  41. #41
    Alcohol is a known lethal allergen to some. Why take the gamble and find out if you are allergic to it?

    Gassho, Jishin
    治 Ji
    心​ Shin

  42. #42
    Senior Member Amelia's Avatar
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    Practicing not being attached to intoxication in all its forms. Practicing not being attached to avoiding intoxication in all its forms.

    Gassho
    迎 Geika

  43. #43
    My opinion on the topic of alcohol comes from a personal and professional perspective. On a personal level, alcohol almost destroyed this body. Drugs and alcohol affect my loved ones, alive and deceased. On a professional level, I see the devastation it causes daily.

    Alcoholics and addicts are not made. Alcoholics and addicts are born with the seeds of addiction. The genes for addiction remain unexpressed as long as the alcoholics and addicts never experiment with their drug of choice.

    Drugs and alcohol have nothing to do with the middle way. Its an all or nothing proposition. It's either benign (you can drink and use in moderation) or not benign (you can not drink in moderation).

    You don't have to worry if the bite of a snake is poisonous if you don't pick up the snake.

    Gassho, Jishin
    治 Ji
    心​ Shin

  44. #44
    I agree with your post Jishin
    Alcohol is the cause of destruction and suffering for many people. Another reason for which I do not drink is because I do not want to support companies that produce a substance that is the cause of so much suffering as alcohol is. I boycott certain things in my life for ethical reason and alcohol is one of them, along with anything that is not a life necessity and is the cause of suffering.

  45. #45
    Senior Member Amelia's Avatar
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    You don't have to worry about suffering if you are never born to begin with!
    迎 Geika

  46. #46
    This Precept will come up again in a few weeks during our Jukai Preparations.

    For now, I am going to offer a bit more on my personal view of this Precept. However, I wish to underline that my interpretation is not for everyone, and there are several folks in this thread who are stricter in their attitude toward alcohol, all for good reasons. They are also right in how they undertake this Precept in their lives.

    In my view, a person with issues of addiction, prone to anger and violence and the like, should not drink one drop. For them, any drinking of alcohol is poison. I would also refrain from drinking in the presence of a friend I knew was prone to such issues. Beyond that, I do not believe that a glass or two of the vine is a source of world evils, any more than I will refrain from lighting candles and incense merely because the same smoke and fire, if out of control, can destroy homes and forests, injure passers by, light explosives or damage the environment. Everything in balance, control and moderation.

    The original Vinaya Precepts typically began as cautions against the extreme which, in the hands of the zealous, evolved frequently into total bans "just to be safe", assuring that the Precept would not have any possibility to be violated or itself become a cause of violating other Precepts. Some Buddhist scholars point out that the no such rule existed in the early Sangha, but was developed in response to several extreme cases, reported in the Vinaya, where monks consumed alcohol and became extremely drunk, sick, garrulous, disorderly and the like, and thus a source of great disorder within the Buddha's fragile community. Over time, this became a total ban, as commentators focused on ethical issues and the potential effect on mindfulness. Many Mahāyāna thinkers thereupon reacted against rigid interpretations of rules and precepts arguing that if motivated by compassion or other benevolent purposes, committing acts that would otherwise be outright violations of one's precepts would actually be meritorious. Alcohol was seen as having the potential, if consumed in the extreme or at inappropriate times, to cause a loss of mindfulness or to contribute to the breach of other Precepts such as those on anger and sexuality, but alcohol itself need not do so if itself consumed mindfully. (See, for example, http://huayanzang.blogspot.jp/2012/0...t-alcohol.html) This led to a greater tolerance of small and healthful alcohol consumption in China, Japan and other places.

    As we shall see during Jukai, the Precept undertaken speaks of our poisoning by intoxication in many forms (including by the need to shop, consume, own and the like), but not necessarily minor behavior not amounting to becoming truly "intoxicated".

    Again, the foregoing is just an interpretation applicable to some people, while other people have good reasons to honor a stricter or total prohibition on drinking.

    Gassho, J
    Last edited by Jundo; 08-30-2014 at 10:42 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

    #SAT TODAY!

  47. #47
    I am not “worried” about suffering I am “concerned”. I agree with you Amelia, and perhaps you are very much there, and I am not. However I would not do away with compassion so quickly. While certain lofty ideas are not integrated fully (and that is where I am). I think that I should be compassionate and have concern for those that suffer around me, while not taking the suffering as something absolute of course. We all know intellectually that in the end ALL IS WELL beyond Nirvana and Samsara. Also, if we are never born there is no need for this Sangha or the Dharma or this conversation either and we should just keep silence.
    Gassho

  48. #48
    Senior Member Amelia's Avatar
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    I didn't mean it literally.
    迎 Geika

  49. #49
    Thank you Jundo.

    Gassho,
    Jeff

  50. #50
    Hi,

    Someone wrote me to ask about this statement by me ...

    But do not drink before or during Zazen. One need not cloud the mind to taste Reality.
    But, since I believe that "Zazen" is not only what happens on the cushion, but also has the meaning of life when we rise from the cushion and go about our day, doesn't that mean that I sometimes "drink during Zazen", perhaps clouding the mind to Reality going about the day?

    I wrote this ...

    Hi,

    Well, I also know that Zazen does not end on the cushion, and is all of life ... all the world. I would not drink before or during sitting on the cushion. I do not drink for most of the day, or many days at all. I do not drink when I am working, playing with my daughter, driving the car ... in fact, I rarely drink at all, and never much when I do. All that is "Zazen" too, and opportunities to Practice, in the wider meaning.

    But you know, I found myself at Yankee Stadium a few weeks ago, watching the game with a beer in hand. Another day, I was sitting on the porch with a friend, recalling the past, enjoying a glass of wine. That was "Zazen" too, that was life, and an opportunity to Practice in its widest meaning. Sometimes, I sit with "what is" ... and that includes on a sunny day in the bleachers, or an evening on the porch. I was sitting there, one with the moment and just what was. I guess you could say that, in that moment, I was at unbroken oneness with ball game and friend, sun and sunset, glass in hand, the breeze on my cheek ... all being the Reality of the Moment.

    Again, just my take of "Zazen never ends" and this Precept. Other peoples' ways that may avoid drinking and Buddhist Practice altogether are good for such people. And for some people to drink at all, especially the addicted, is pure poison.

    Gassho, J
    The great 15th Century Japanese Zen Master, Ikkyu, wrote ...

    Wild roses,
    Plucked from fields
    Full of croaking frogs:
    Float them in your wine
    And enjoy every minute!


    Gassho, J
    Last edited by Jundo; 08-30-2014 at 10:39 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

    #SAT TODAY!

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