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Thread: Dukkha = frustration?

  1. #1
    Senior Member kirkmc's Avatar
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    Dukkha = frustration?

    I've been reading a book called Missing Out: In Praise of the Unlived Life by Adam Phillips, who is a psychoanalyst. He talks about "frustration," and the way he describes makes a good parallel with dukkha:


    "there are (at least) four kinds of frustration: the frustration of being deprived of something that has never existed; the frustration of being deprived of something one has never had (whether or not it exists); the frustration of being deprived of something one has had; and, finally, the frustration of being deprived of something one once had, but canít have again."

    Gassho,

    Kirk
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    I know nothing.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Myosha's Avatar
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    Hello,

    Whomever this 'being' depriving everything is, it should be ridiculed and stopped(!?!)

    "Frustration" can't abide jokes.

    Clinging and attachment can be distracting.


    Gassho,
    Myosha
    Practice with humility, respect all beings, avoid attachments, give rise to prajŮa from your own awareness, put an end to delusions - Hui-neng

  3. #3
    In Praise of the Unlived Life
    May I ask, why does he praise it?
    In addition to making the title interesting and make people wonder and buy the book?

    I'm not knowledgeable to answer your question, but his "frustration" seems to cover some dukkha, I agree.

    Gassho,
    Danny

  4. #4
    Senior Member Joyo's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing, Kirk. This is a very powerful little quote. In the end, the one that is being "deprived" perhaps is nothing more than a story or fantasy that never existed in the first place? Just speaking from my own experience.

    Gassho,
    Joyo

  5. #5
    Laugh at frustration or the joke is on you.

    Kind regards. /\
    _/_
    Rich
    MUHYO
    無 (MU, Emptiness) and 氷 (HYO, Ice) ... Emptiness Ice ...

  6. #6
    Senior Member kirkmc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danny B View Post
    May I ask, why does he praise it?
    In addition to making the title interesting and make people wonder and buy the book
    The book is about the idea that we shouldn't worry about the many lives that we imagine but don't live. It's about embracing the life we have rather than imagining what might have been.

    Gassho,

    Kirk


    (Posted from my iPhone; please excuse any typos or brevity.)
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  7. #7
    Senior Member kirkmc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joyo View Post
    Thanks for sharing, Kirk. This is a very powerful little quote. In the end, the one that is being "deprived" perhaps is nothing more than a story or fantasy that never existed in the first place? Just speaking from my own experience.

    Gassho,
    Joyo
    Yes, that's exactly what the book is about, as I said above on another reply.

    Gassho,

    Kirk


    (Posted from my iPhone; please excuse any typos or brevity.)
    -----

    I know nothing.

  8. #8
    My too simple definition of Dukkha.

    Buddha-Basics (Part I)
    http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...y-Dooby-Dukkha
    Buddha-Basics (Part II) — Noble Truths
    http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...7-Noble-Truths

    More than merely "frustration" (although that too), Dukkha is the angst, dissatisfaction, divisions and frictions between the endless ways we would wish things to be and this self-life-world as it is.

    Gassho, J
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

    #SAT TODAY!

  9. #9
    Senior Member Joyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    My too simple definition of Dukkha.

    Buddha-Basics (Part I)
    http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...y-Dooby-Dukkha
    Buddha-Basics (Part II) — Noble Truths
    http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...7-Noble-Truths

    More than merely "frustration" (although that too), Dukkha is the angst, dissatisfaction, divisions and frictions between the endless ways we would wish things to be and this self-life-world as it is.

    Gassho, J
    Thank you for this, Jundo. I know, for myself, I have been much more aware of m own frictions between the endless wishing. I have likened it to scratching my nails on a huge rock, desperately trying to move it, not realizing that behind me is a beautiful valley full of wonder and life.

    Gassho,
    Joyo

  10. #10
    Senior Member Amelia's Avatar
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    An interesting take on zazen that I heard once:

    "The monks must sit there, not wishing for anything."

    It's not how I define shikantaza, but when I heard it a few months ago, it opened up a space in practice. I noticed how much I go on, constantly wishing.

    Gassho
    迎 Geika

  11. #11
    Senior Member Clark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joyo View Post
    Thank you for this, Jundo. I know, for myself, I have been much more aware of m own frictions between the endless wishing. I have likened it to scratching my nails on a huge rock, desperately trying to move it, not realizing that behind me is a beautiful valley full of wonder and life.

    Gassho,
    Joyo
    Joyo, that is really great!

    Gassho
    C

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Amelia View Post
    An interesting take on zazen that I heard once:

    "The monks must sit there, not wishing for anything."

    It's not how I define shikantaza, but when I heard it a few months ago, it opened up a space in practice. I noticed how much I go on, constantly wishing.

    Gassho
    Nice. I like that a lot. Reminds me of this song:



    Gassho
    Shōmon

  13. #13
    Senior Member Nindo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirkmc View Post
    I've been reading a book called Missing Out: In Praise of the Unlived Life by Adam Phillips, who is a psychoanalyst. He talks about "frustration," and the way he describes makes a good parallel with dukkha:


    "there are (at least) four kinds of frustration: the frustration of being deprived of something that has never existed; the frustration of being deprived of something one has never had (whether or not it exists); the frustration of being deprived of something one has had; and, finally, the frustration of being deprived of something one once had, but can’t have again."

    Gassho,

    Kirk
    I listened to a podcast interview with the author, and the book seemed really interesting. When I got it from the library however, I just could not get into it. It was too theoretical for me; I was expecting case studies from the author's clients, or something closer to real life experience. I guess the basic idea was well summarized in the interview, good enough.

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