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Thread: IMPORTANT SANGHA DISCUSSION: Begin Accepting Donations?

  1. #1

    IMPORTANT SANGHA DISCUSSION: Begin Accepting Donations?

    Dear All,

    We need the entire Community's input and advice.

    We do not charge any fee for what we do here in the Forum, and we do not now accept donations. This place has always been provided as a service to all who sit, and Taigu and I do not ever want to require, push or aggressively solicit donations.

    Despite this, many of our members have, from time to time, expressed the wish to make some small donation to us without any solicitation by us, all simply from the goodness of their heart. Until now, we have turned down even such donations.

    However, there is no ignoring the fact that there are items involved in running this community that could use funding, such as any future significant upgrades and improvements in the computer and audio-visual software and hardware we use at the heart of what we do here, costs faced in organizing "on site" Sesshin we would like to offer here and there in the coming years, costs of placing the sometime notice in Buddhist publications and places like "SweepingZen" to let people know we exist, and the like. (Here, for example, is the little notice we run at SweepingZen, to let Zen folks like yourselves know of the resources available here):



    Such is necessary to fulfill our "mission statement":

    Treeleaf Zendo was designed specifically as an online practice place for Zen practitioners who cannot easily commute to a Zen Center due to health concerns, living in remote areas, or work, childcare and family needs, and seeks to provide Zazen sittings, retreats, discussion, interaction with a teacher, and all other activities of a Zen Buddhist Sangha, all fully online.
    Right now, most all funding comes from my (Jundo's) pocket and from Taigu, but all our priests give their daily time and money to this place without any compensation. (None of our priests receive any salary or like compensation for what they do here, and they never will even if we accept donations.)

    For this reason, we are proposing that we begin to accept donations that people voluntarily wish to contribute from time to time. In doing so, we will continue not to require or pressure anyone to do so in any way. There will be no obligation whatsoever, Treeleaf will remain totally free, and any giving will just be as the person feels.

    What do you think?

    Here is what Taigu and I Propose:

    -1- All services of this Sangha would continue to be without charge, and no fee or donation will ever be solicited or even suggested. However, there will be some place on our web page where people could click to make a donation should they wish, purely from their own inspiration to do so. The link will connect to PayPal or a like service where donations can be accepted for charities. (Some unusual and special events ... like a Sesshin in America or Europe in a borrowed hall ... might require participants to pay for their food, room and space rental, but even then we will try to do what we can ... including using donations ... to help cover the expenses of people wishing to come with a true economic hardship).

    -2- We will establish a small bank account and a "Donation Expenditure Approval & Oversight Board", which will probably consist of about 5 of our long time members (other than Taigu and me) appointed by consensus of the whole community. Taigu and I would propose something we think we need to spend money on, and then ask the board to approve it by majority vote. The board would have to approve all expenditures. The board would also oversee the bank account, and the making of a balance sheet or report showing every penny that comes in and goes out. That balance sheet and report will be disclosed to the entire community each year, showing all income and expenditures (however, while amounts of donations will be shown, the identity of all donors will remain anonymous).

    -3- Treeleaf will -not- incorporate as a "charitable corporation", a "501(c)(3)" with the American IRS or the like. We will remain an unincorporated association. The reason is that there is little benefit, and much cost, annual paperwork and complexity, if we were to do so. For example (and although we know that nobody will be making a donation thinking about a 'tax deduction'), donors in the U.S. should be able to claim the same tax deduction whether we incorporate/become a "501(c)(3)" or not. The IRS will treat us the same. Furthermore, it would not help people in countries outside the US receive a deduction, which they may or may not anyway (they need to ask their accountant about the rules in their own country if concerned about this). In any event, we believe that donations should be made without thinking about some "tax deduction".

    -4- Our "Online 'Dana' Bowl" would be accompanied by a message expressing that we do need money to keep a (digital) roof on this house, and people can give what they feel in their hearts they are receiving from being here. If people have little or no money, it is fine to donate little or nothing at all. One does what one can. If someone has more money, and feels it is right, one can donate more than someone without much money. All donations are completely voluntary, without obligation, according to ability, and according to what one feels in one's heart.

    -5- We will continue to ask our Sangha members to be generous ... beyond where it begins to hurt ... in making financial donations and/or volunteering with other public charities which are engaged in such activities as feeding the poor, finding a cure for a disease and like good works in society.

    -6- Our informal survey revealed that most Buddhist groups (not to mention churches and other religious groups) accept donations, and I am sure you know some can be quite aggressive about it. We will never be demanding of donations, or use any pressure whether overt or subtle.

    That is basically the plan as it stands.

    Please freely post any comments or questions.


    Gassho, Jundo (on behalf of Taigu too).
    Last edited by Jundo; 02-09-2014 at 01:40 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  2. #2
    Senior Member Nenka's Avatar
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    Sounds like a plan!

    Gassho

    Jen
    The result is not the point; it is the effort to improve ourselves that is valuable. There is no end to this practice. --Shunryu Suzuki

  3. #3
    Senior Member Shawn's Avatar
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    I strongly support this. Simply put, I think it establishes a venue where operating costs can be shared among its members and not held solely on our teachers. I would happily donate to help with any and all expenses which come up from time to time. In fact, I thank you for the opportunity to contribute.

    I like the idea of creating a committee to oversea financial decisions making as well.


    Gassho

    Shawn
    Last edited by Shawn; 02-08-2014 at 04:01 PM.

  4. #4
    Treeleaf Unsui rculver's Avatar
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    I strongly support this as well.

    Gassho,


    Shugen
    Shugen
    明道 修眼

  5. #5
    Senior Member Genshin's Avatar
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    I fully support this idea.

    Gassho
    Genshin (Matt)

  6. #6
    Senior Member Entai's Avatar
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    I support this wholeheartedly.

    Gassho, Entai

    Entai (Bill)
    "Be kind - for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle" - Plato

  7. #7
    Fantastic idea!

    Gassho, Jishin

  8. #8
    Senior Member Daijo's Avatar
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    I fully support it. I would be uncomfortable with it being mandatory, as I see that as being a big barrier to peoples access to the dharma. In a way that is purely by choice and with no minimum suggestion, etc. I think it's a wonderful way to give dana for the sangha.

    Gassho,

    Daijo

  9. #9
    Sounds fair to me.

    Gassho,

    Risho

  10. #10
    Senior Member Joyo's Avatar
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    I support this idea. And deep bows to Jundo, Taigu, and all the priests for the sacrifices, compassion, and time put into this sangha. I am truly honoured to be part of this all, it has touched my life very deeply.

    Gassho,
    Joyo

  11. #11
    Senior Member Nindo's Avatar
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    I think this makes sense.

    In addition to what Jundo said, I propose marking part of the bowl as "travel assistance fund". Members who would like to attend a retreat (primarily TL physical meetings, but also retreats at other centers) would apply to the fund for assistance, if otherwise their financial situation would not allow them to participate. The process would be confidential and no names published.

    As Joyo said, many bows to all who keep TL running.
    Gassho,
    Nindo

  12. #12
    I support the idea. It is only natural that we all contribute a bit within our means to make some funds available. Good and up to date computers, cameras and other systems lie at the heart of our sangha and must not be the cause of any worry or trouble. There is always some maintenance to be done, even though this monastery of ours does not have walls, a roof or a kitchen and yes, this always costs a bit of money.

    As for how it is managed, I don't feel there is a need for a 5 strong oversight committee as longs as all contributions are not mandatory nor aggressively solicited. Since this is clearly not the spirit of our sangha anyway and our priests and teachers have our complete trust, I vote against a complicated financial controlling system and leave it to Jundo, Taigu and whomever they chose as trustees. No need for elections, voting, financial reports and checking of accounts . Well, not until we start seeing private jets in the background and Zazenkai from Tahiti Beach Club (although a nice vacation for our teachers would be well deserved). Also, some available means could make it possible for us as a sangha to offer help to those who are really in need. Spark new ideas and create new possibilities. Money however, must never become a subject for discussion and disagreement among us. This is why I think we should leave it entirely in the hands of those who created this great place and leave it there. Ones right hand does not have to know what the left hand does.


    Gassho

    MyoHo

  13. #13
    Senior Member Nameless's Avatar
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    This is a fantastic idea. Will donate whenever I can.

    Gassho, John

  14. #14
    Senior Member Myosha's Avatar
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    Hello,

    Accept what's given.


    Gassho,
    Myosha
    Practice with humility, respect all beings, avoid attachments, give rise to prajña from your own awareness, put an end to delusions - Hui-neng

  15. #15
    Senior Member Clark's Avatar
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    Hello

    I find this plan fully acceptable,ethical and in keeping with the integrity with which I find at the heart of our leaders, as well as sangha members and participants. I wonder if it might be possible to also support charitable projects, not just as individuals, but as a community as well. Perhaps it would be "fun?" to see what we could achieve collectively and not just on our own.

    Gassho
    Clark

  16. #16
    Senior Member Entai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyoHo View Post

    I vote against a complicated financial controlling system and leave it to Jundo, Taigu and whomever they chose as trustees. No need for elections, voting, financial reports and checking of accounts . Well, not until we start seeing private jets in the background and Zazenkai from Tahiti Beach Club (although a nice vacation for our teachers would be well deserved). Also, some available means could make it possible for us as a sangha to offer help to those who are really in need. Spark new ideas and create new possibilities. Money however, must never become a subject for discussion and disagreement among us. This is why I think we should leave it entirely in the hands of those who created this great place and leave it there. Ones right hand does not have to know what the left hand does.


    Gassho

    MyoHo
    MyoHo,
    I agree. I don't want to vote for treasurer, oversight boards, etc. Let's keep it simple.

    Gassho, Entai

    Entai (Bill)
    "Be kind - for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle" - Plato

  17. #17
    Senior Member kirkmc's Avatar
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    While the teachings here have always been provided with no thought of compensation , I've wanted to donate to Treeleaf for years, as I know there are expenses. I'd be delighted to contribute to the stable future and longevity of Treeleaf.

    Gassho,

    Kirk
    -----

    I know nothing.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Heishu's Avatar
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    Jundo and Taigu,

    This is something that I think has been long overdue in becoming a reality and I thank you both for allowing all of us to have the opportunity to share in this way. I also agree that participation should to be voluntary since some may be living on limited funds.

    Gassho,
    Heishu


    “Blessed are the flexible, for they never get bent out of shape." Author Unknown

  19. #19
    Senior Member Clark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyoHo View Post
    I support the idea. It is only natural that we all contribute a bit within our means to make some funds available. Good and up to date computers, cameras and other systems lie at the heart of our sangha and must not be the cause of any worry or trouble. There is always some maintenance to be done, even though this monastery of ours does not have walls, a roof or a kitchen and yes, this always costs a bit of money.

    As for how it is managed, I don't feel there is a need for a 5 strong oversight committee as longs as all contributions are not mandatory nor aggressively solicited. Since this is clearly not the spirit of our sangha anyway and our priests and teachers have our complete trust, I vote against a complicated financial controlling system and leave it to Jundo, Taigu and whomever they chose as trustees. No need for elections, voting, financial reports and checking of accounts . Well, not until we start seeing private jets in the background and Zazenkai from Tahiti Beach Club (although a nice vacation for our teachers would be well deserved). Also, some available means could make it possible for us as a sangha to offer help to those who are really in need. Spark new ideas and create new possibilities. Money however, must never become a subject for discussion and disagreement among us. This is why I think we should leave it entirely in the hands of those who created this great place and leave it there. Ones right hand does not have to know what the left hand does.


    Gassho

    MyoHo
    Whoah with kindness and respect I really disagree. I think once you start asking for monetary support it requires oversight. If nothing else it PROTECTS Jundo and Taigu from such allegations and adds to the integrity of what this whole sangha is trying to achieve. It isn't THAT complicated.

    Gassho
    Clark

  20. #20
    Member Cooperix's Avatar
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    When I joined TL a few months ago I searched for a "donation/dana" link and was somewhat disappointed you did not accept donations. The sit-a-longs are alone worth their weight in gold! So thank you for providing the opportunity for me to contribute.
    And I agree that an oversight committee would be helpful, not only with the bookkeeping but to protect you from any allegations of impropriety.
    my vote is a big YES.

    Anne

  21. #21
    Yes
    Gassho,
    Kaishin

  22. #22
    It is coming on six years now that Treeleaf has been my Sangha, my community. It is proper that we all have the opportunity to support our community and not leave the burden on the backs of our priests. Yes please establish the "dana" bowl for all of us to help as we can.

    Jim
    Last edited by lorax; 02-09-2014 at 01:43 PM.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Nengyo's Avatar
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    The plan looks solid. I support this completely.
    Try not to be a jerk-- one of the Buddhas

  24. #24
    Thats a very good plan and it seems well thought to me,
    yes, please do so, sometimes, when people really want to support specifically treeleaf with some funds, they should be able to do so, I believe.
    _()_
    Myoku

  25. #25
    Definitely a good idea. Jundo and Taigu give so much of themselves so the finances at least should be shared around. The international postage for Jukai alone must have been expensive.

    For me, the notion of a financial committee is not about protecting Jundo and Taigu (who have my complete trust) but rather sharing the load of managing the accounts and making any necessary decisions etc.

    Gassho
    Kokuu

  26. #26
    I strongly support this plan. Feel neutral about an oversight committee - whatever is of most help for Jundo and Taigu.

    Gassho

    Willow

  27. #27
    Hello everyone,

    just a quick note to thank you all for your positive feedback! It's inspiring to know that there are so many people actively involved in this Sangha who really want to see it keep doing what it has been doing for the last few years.

    Gassho,

    Hans Chudo Mongen
    Chudo Mongen, Ordained Novice Priest-in-Training

  28. #28
    Member Liang's Avatar
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    I appreciate the opportunity to donate. Contributing finacially as able, even if it's a dollar a month, is part of being in a community for me at least. We donate to our family church, school association, community outreach, and so on. I feel it's only fair* that we donate a small amount to Treeleaf as a community I feel very invested in.

    *fair to me not treeleaf. Why should we give money to my wife's choice of family worship yet not mine.

    At the same time I am reminded of Bodhidharma and the emporer. How much merit will we gain by our giving? None.

    Gassho and mettas for all those who serve and give. -Fred
    Last edited by Liang; 02-09-2014 at 11:46 AM.

  29. #29
    Senior Member Koshin's Avatar
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    I think it is a great opportunity for our Sangha to make some projects in the future, and I believe the financial committee it's a good idea, for Jundo and Taigu to keep doing their thing (I do not know how do they have time for the things they ALREADY do )

    So, lets have our own Treeleaf Piggy Bank

    2014-02-08 14.18.14.jpg

    Gassho
    ______________________________
    Kōshin / Leo



    P.S. Yup, I know, my English sucks

  30. #30
    Senior Member Entai's Avatar
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    After reading some of the other comments here, I suppose a committee does make sense. I didn't really consider that not having one would put an extra burden on Jundo and Taigu. I'm fine with whatever is decided on. Big thanks to all who make this Sangha possible.

    Gassho, Entai

  31. #31

  32. #32
    Treeleaf Unsui Shokai's Avatar
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    Like Mongen, I also feel very encouraged by the positive response on this thread. Jundo and Taigu have certainly put a lot of thought into the preparation of this initiative and as some say it is perhaps long overdue the we the general membership of Treeleaf Sangha will be able to contribute monetarily to its success. Thank you all.
    gassho, Shokai
    Last edited by Shokai; 02-09-2014 at 07:10 PM.
    gassho, Shokai, still learning the way and knowing nothing
    仁道 生開 - Jindo Shokai "Open to life in a benevolent way"
    Just another itinerant monk; go somewhere else to listen to someone who really knows.

  33. #33
    Senior Member Juki's Avatar
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    Count me in. My only worry would be that by NOT establishing some sort of recognized business association, the donations would be deemed to be taxable income to Jundo and Taigu. But, I am thinking in terms of American tax law and I don't know anything about Japanese tax law.

    Gassho,
    William
    "First you have to give up." Tyler Durden

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Juki View Post
    Count me in. My only worry would be that by NOT establishing some sort of recognized business association, the donations would be deemed to be taxable income to Jundo and Taigu. But, I am thinking in terms of American tax law and I don't know anything about Japanese tax law.

    Gassho,
    William
    Hi William,

    No, that is not so. Let me put on my lawyer hat for a second (Duke University Law School, Class of '86). I looked into this issue in some detail.

    The American Internal Revenue Service is incredibly generous and tolerant of "church" activities (those familiar with the history of religion in the US will quickly get why), and a "church" is what they would define us as. No incorporation is needed (and, in fact, is not warranted or advisable), and it makes no difference on how we are treated. So long as we are not a secret cover for some business operations or the like, and keep the money clearly separate and well accounted for, and only use it for clearly Buddhist uses, the money will not be taxable income in any form, and will be deemed non-taxable donations to the "church". The people making the donations within the U.S. should be able to claim a deduction whether we are a "corporation" or not, no difference in either case, and should check with their accountant if they wish to do so.

    If this interests you (and you have nothing better to do than read tax law), here is an IRS booklet on the subject ...

    Publication 1828, Tax Guide for Churches and Religious Organizations.
    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf

    and an IRS webinar ...

    http://www.irsvideos.gov/ChurchesRel...Organizations/

    We are doing everything by the book, and their is no question of it being deemed anything but a charitable donation to Treeleaf, not somebody's "personal income".

    Gassho, Jundo
    Last edited by Jundo; 02-10-2014 at 01:25 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  35. #35
    Senior Member Juki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Hi William,

    No, that is not so. Let me put on my lawyer hat for a second (Duke University Law School, Class of '86). I looked into this issue in some detail.

    The American Internal Revenue Service is incredibly generous and tolerant of "church" activities (those familiar with the history of religion in the US will quickly get why), and a "church" is what they would define us as. No incorporation is needed (and, in fact, is not warranted or advisable), and it makes no difference on how we are treated. So long as we are not a secret cover for some business operations or the like, and keep the money clearly separate and well accounted for, and only use it for clearly Buddhist uses, the money will not be taxable income in any form, is non-taxable donations to the "church". The people making the donations within the U.S. should be able to claim a deduction whether we are a "corporation" or not, no difference in either case, and should check with their accountant if they wish to do so.

    If this interests you (and you have nothing better to do than read tax law), here is an IRS booklet on the subject ...

    Publication 1828, Tax Guide for Churches and Religious Organizations.
    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf

    and an IRS webinar ...

    http://www.irsvideos.gov/ChurchesRel...Organizations/

    We are doing everything by the book, and their is no question of it being deemed anything but a charitable donation to Treeleaf, not somebody's "personal income".

    Gassho, Jundo

    Okay. My statement was only one of concern for you and Taigu, not meant to be taken as an accusation that things would not be by the book. I was worried that even though the money was donated for charitable purposes and exclusively used for charitable purposes, there might still be some way that you got taxed on the donations. None of us would want that. My sincere apologies if my concern was interpreted in another manner.

    this is probably why I am an insurance lawyer and not a tax lawyer.

    gassho,
    juki
    Last edited by Juki; 02-09-2014 at 06:39 PM.
    "First you have to give up." Tyler Durden

  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Juki View Post
    Okay. My statement was only one of concern for you and Taigu, not meant to be taken as an accusation that things would not be by the book. My sincere apologies if it was interpreted that way.

    this is probably why I am an insurance lawyer and not a tax lawyer.

    gassho,
    juki
    No, there is no chance of a problem.

    So long as Taigu and me are not putting the money directly into our own bank accounts, throwing in a set of Ginzu knives to anyone who donates, and then using the money to pay for Las Vegas vacations and our car payments ... no, we are all by the book and quite safe according to IRS regulations. We are well in the safe zone.

    Sorry, no Ginzu knives folks!

    Gassho, J
    Last edited by Jundo; 02-09-2014 at 06:45 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  37. #37
    I would like to personally volunteer to chair Treeleaf's Aviation committee. You know we need to fly in style, whenever, wherever. hahahahahahah

  38. #38
    Senior Member Entai's Avatar
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    No ginzu knives? Well, can I still keep the potato peeler as my special gift? Haha.

    Entai

  39. #39
    Senior Member kirkmc's Avatar
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    IMPORTANT SANGHA DISCUSSION: Begin Accepting Donations?

    Jundo,

    You mention the IRS, but would you domicile the group and account in the US? That seems problematic, since you're not there, and because of FACTA, which, as an expatriate American, you have probably encountered.

    Kirk


    (Posted from my iPhone; please excuse any typos or brevity.)
    -----

    I know nothing.

  40. #40
    Senior Member KellyRok's Avatar
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    I also fully support this, I think it is a great idea!

    Gassho,
    Kelly/Jinmei

  41. #41
    Treeleaf Unsui/Engineer Kyonin's Avatar
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    Hi all,

    I am humbled by your reactions to the donations plans.

    Thank you all for your kindness and community spirit.

    Gassho,

    Kyonin
    Please remember I am only a priest in training. I could be wrong in everything I say. Slap me if needed.

    The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one. Mr. Spock

  42. #42
    Senior Member Jakudo's Avatar
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    Excellent idea, Sangha members should have the opportunity to give back to the Sangha that our teachers have worked so hard to build.
    Gassho, Jakudo

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    Gassho, Shawn Jakudo Hinton
    It all begins when we say, “I”. Everything that follows is illusion.
    "Even to speak the word Buddha is dragging in the mud soaking wet; Even to say the word Zen is a total embarrassment."
    寂道

  43. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by kirkmc View Post
    Jundo,

    You mention the IRS, but would you domicile the group and account in the US? That seems problematic, since you're not there, and because of FACTA, which, as an expatriate American, you have probably encountered.

    Kirk


    (Posted from my iPhone; please excuse any typos or brevity.)
    Hi Kirk,

    You mean the "Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act" (FACTA), because I am an expat US citizen living in Japan. It does not apply or, at most, requires simple reporting to the IRS that the account exists.

    Any bank account for donations belongs to "Treeleaf", not to me or Taigu or any people here. "Treeleaf" is recognized as a separate entity (an association which is deemed a "church") by the IRS.

    It is best to locate the account in the USA for any number of reasons, especially since the greatest single number of members reside there, it is the one country where we have the single most activities such as sitting groups and the like. The signatories on the account would be (at bank request) Americans living near the bank. We have many members in other countries, but the US was the single place with the best connection even though we have members divided in many many countries. (I might have put all the people in the EU together as "one place", but still we have more Yanks. Anyway, I am not familiar with EU law enough to structure this). Our US connection is more than sufficient. It is sufficient for IRS purposes to say that Treeleaf has a strong or its strongest connection and activities in the US even though we have branches many places.

    In Zen ... and tax law ... you have to pick one place to be headquarters, and just be there!

    By the way, I should not have been joking ... even in jest ... about "ginzu knives and trips to Vegas." It was too near my bedtime. So, let me say it again in a more serious way:

    So long as we keep the funds segregated and well accounted for, do not operate a commercial business or the like under secret cover of being a "church", do not co-mingle or use the funds for personal uses and clearly earmark them for "Buddhist" and the like religious activities, and continue to engage here at Treeleaf in active and actual Buddhist Practice, then there is no chance that these funds will be deemed "personal funds" of Taigu or me or anyone else. Very clearly, we are in compliance with all the requirements. The donations will be deemed by the IRS as charitable donations to an association, a "church", that stands separate for tax purposes from any individual such as Taigu, me, signatories on the bank account or any of our members.

    Gassho, Jundo
    Last edited by Jundo; 02-10-2014 at 01:28 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  44. #44
    Senior Member Nindo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nindo View Post
    In addition to what Jundo said, I propose marking part of the bowl as "travel assistance fund". Members who would like to attend a retreat (primarily TL physical meetings, but also retreats at other centers) would apply to the fund for assistance, if otherwise their financial situation would not allow them to participate. The process would be confidential and no names published.
    Since nobody has answered to my suggestion yet, I'm repeating it. It is a cause dear to me. If it falls by the wayside after consideration, so be it, but please, consider it.
    Gassho,
    Nindo

  45. #45
    Treeleaf Unsui Dosho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nindo View Post
    Since nobody has answered to my suggestion yet, I'm repeating it. It is a cause dear to me. If it falls by the wayside after consideration, so be it, but please, consider it.
    Nindo,

    Right now Jundo is letting everyone voice their thoughts on accepting dana. A discussion of what we will do with it is yet to come. It is a good idea, but one thing at a time.

    Gassho,
    Dosho
    Shudo Dosho - Ordained Priest-in-Training
    With your help and guidance from Jundo & Taigu
    I am learning, but please take what I say with a
    grain of salt, especially in matters of the Dharma.

  46. #46
    Senior Member Shawn's Avatar
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    Hi Nindo

    Since you posted it again I will give my perspective. I would prefer it be used simply for administrative/technical and/or whatever costs creep up in the day to day operations of this place.

    I certainly respect your opinion. And would offer support regardless of where the money goes. Perhaps we can discuss further when things evolve a little more.

    Gassho

    Shawn
    Last edited by Shawn; 02-10-2014 at 02:19 AM.

  47. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindo View Post
    Since nobody has answered to my suggestion yet, I'm repeating it. It is a cause dear to me. If it falls by the wayside after consideration, so be it, but please, consider it.
    Gassho,
    Nindo
    Hi Nindo,

    I am thinking that certainly some funds will be used for that, including for the August Washington D.C. Retreat. Not sure how yet, or the exact procedure to earmark them.

    One consideration, by the way, is what "hardship" means to folks in the prosperous West. Fugen recently told me about attending a Zen Retreat in Europe held in a hotel where some folks actually took time during the "discussion session" to complain about the quality of room service!

    I believe we should help people with "economic hardship". But there is also the case that, in the West, people might not fully realize that they need to sacrifice a few trips through the fast food drive thru, their cable tv subscription, and buying that new Ipod in order to save funds to attend a retreat. Only then is it real "economic hardship". We will have funds to help people (including in attending the upcoming Washington D.C. retreat), but we will ask recipients of financial aid to really really look in the mirror at their situation before requesting.

    Gassho, Jundo
    Last edited by Jundo; 02-10-2014 at 03:33 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  48. #48
    Senior Member Heion's Avatar
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    I support!

    All the best,
    Alex

  49. #49
    Treeleaf Engineer Seimyo's Avatar
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    Wonderful. You have my support.

    Gassho
    Seimyo

    明 Seimyō (Christhatischris)

  50. #50
    Senior Member kirkmc's Avatar
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    Jundo,

    An aside: the reason I mentioned FACTA is because many banks in the EU are starting to refuse yo open accounts for Americans, and some have even started closing existing accounts. It goes beyond simple reporting, and includes possible fines levied on banks.

    Gassho,

    Kirk


    (Posted from my iPhone; please excuse any typos or brevity.)
    Last edited by kirkmc; 02-10-2014 at 10:00 AM.
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    I know nothing.

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