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Thread: is your mokney mind more active in the AM or PM

  1. #1
    Senior Member bayamo's Avatar
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    is your mokney mind more active in the AM or PM

    I sit (or try to) twice a day I've noticed that in the AM my mind is WAY more active than in the evening. Man the sh!t that pops in my head is wicked bizarre. Every 2 or 3 minutes I find myself saying OK it's just clouds let'em through. Now at night, I find it much easier to "think non thinking". Should I pass the AM sitting, or just keep up at what I am doing.
    Thanks
    Oh, yeah. If I didn't have inner peace, I'd go completely psycho on all you guys all the time.
    Carl Carlson

  2. #2
    Senior Member Shawn's Avatar
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    Perhaps easier does not mean better. When the mind is tired, in your case perhaps fewer thoughts weigh down the mind. In the morning, having a full day ahead of you, perhaps that is when your mind is most active. That may also be the best time to practice. I am not an expert by any means, but if it were me, when things are wicked bizarre. . Let them be wicked bizarre, and then let it pass naturally. I would sit morning and at night if that works for you.

    Gassho

    Shawn

    Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
    I am a student at Treeleaf. Please take what I say with a grain of salt. Gassho

  3. #3
    Hi Bayamo

    My mind is far more active in the morning too. I still sit both am and pm but knowing that my mind tends to be more active in the morning makes it easier to sit with that.

    Sitting at both ends of the day would seem to be good practice. We can't always sit when the weather is cloudless and sunny!

    Gassho
    Andy

  4. #4
    Senior Member bayamo's Avatar
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    Thanks!
    Oh, yeah. If I didn't have inner peace, I'd go completely psycho on all you guys all the time.
    Carl Carlson

  5. #5
    Active or inactive doesn't matter. A healthy brain produces thoughts. When you are sitting you are probably more aware of them. I wouldn't skip a morning sit because of them. I would have quit this practice long ago if having an active brain was a showstopper. Samadhi can be one moment.
    _/_
    Rich
    MUHYO
    無 (MU, Emptiness) and 氷 (HYO, Ice) ... Emptiness Ice ...

  6. #6
    Senior Member Nengyo's Avatar
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    Mine is always at a 100%. It never shuts up, I just ignore it.
    Try not to be a jerk-- one of the Buddhas

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    Active or inactive doesn't matter. A healthy brain produces thoughts. When you are sitting you are probably more aware of them. I wouldn't skip a morning sit because of them. I would have quit this practice long ago if having an active brain was a showstopper. Samadhi can be one moment.
    Nicely said Rich. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen
    倫道 真現

    As a trainee priest, please take any commentary by me on matters of the Dharma with a pinch of salt.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Nameless's Avatar
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    During the day the monkey mind wants to hop around more for me. I'm a night owl anyway, so I even feel physically healthier at night. Nighttime practice comes easily, but daytime practice is... well great practice.

    Gassho, John

  9. #9
    Senior Member Heion's Avatar
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    My mind is equally active, I'd say. I try not to let it bother me though, you know? I see it as empty, an active mind is just the same as a calm mind; even though we should tame it.

    Of course, that is easier said than done.

    Gassho,
    Alex

  10. #10
    For me the evening sittings are always way calmer than my morning sits. That is just an observation. It shouldn't mean one of the sits is better than the other though.

    Gassho,
    Sam

  11. #11
    I find it varies. Did I have a good day, am I relaxed, am I anticipating the day ahead, or upset with the one I am finishing. Regardless of how I feel, or how I think I feel, I try to sit with it. Learning to sit regardless of my emotional state, and not only when I really want to, has made my zazen 'better'. If we only sit when we are in the mood than our zazen practice will never really be what it could.
    Neika / Ian Adams

    寧 Nei - Peaceful/Courteous
    火 Ka - Fire

    Look for Buddha outside your own mind, and Buddha becomes the devil. --Dogen

  12. #12
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
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    Monkey mind?!!!

    Do you understand the very words of Dogen: ploughing clouds???

    We have a bunch of senior guys here. Too old. Geriatric.

    We need babies who do not unerstand a f.... Word About monkey mind.

    Happy new year to all, morning, evening, monkey or not


    Gassho

    T.

    PS: thank you to Rich, the one that gets it AS IS.
    Last edited by Taigu; 01-01-2014 at 09:50 AM.
    Taigu, teacher at Treeleaf Sangha, was born in 1964, started Zazen early and received Shukke Tokudo in 1983 at age 18 from Rev. Mokusho Zeisler of the Deshimaru Lineage. Received Dharma Transmission from Chodo Cross in 2002. Now resides in Osaka, Japan.

  13. #13
    Taigu, our 800 pound gorilla!

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dicti...ound%20gorilla

    Actually, looking at what people advised, I feel that most of the folks said pretty much the same on this, and we have a wise bunch of bonobos here: Monkey sometimes is very active, monkey sometimes settles down ... but in any event, in either case, see through that monkey and don't pay his monkey business no nevermind. Let monkeys be monkeys, even as we might tame the greedier, angrier side of our inner chimp. Know monkey-non-monkey.

    I find my mind is actually a bit quieter when I first get out of bed. But, the point is not to cage, chain or neuter the monkey, as if with a tranquilizer gun or like some circus act. The key is to see through the monkey to the non-monkey, where there is nothing to break or smash, no other to chase or bite, no territory to protect, and the universe is one Great Banana ripe for the picking.



    Then, the monkey-non-monkey will tend to settle down on his own and be no bother. Dogen once wrote (in Tenzo Kyokun)

    your thoughts speed about like a wild horse and feelings careen about like a monkey in the trees. Let the monkey and horse step back and be seen clearly and the gap is closed naturally. In this way, turn things while being turned by them. Clarify and harmonize your life without losing the single Eye [of transcendent wisdom] which sees the context or the two eyes [of discriminating consciousness] which recognize the details [of this complex world].
    Monkey-non-monkey ... and I ain't monkeying around!

    Gassho, J
    Last edited by Jundo; 01-01-2014 at 02:27 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

    #SAT TODAY!

  14. #14
    Treeleaf Unsui Shokai's Avatar
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  15. #15
    Recently changed to a morning sit and realized the same phenomenon. My mind seemed to be much more active in the morning. I'm not deterred though.

    Gassho



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  16. #16
    Member Cooperix's Avatar
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    2 comments:
    for me an unsettled mind offers an excellent opportunity to practice patience, non- judgement and mercy toward myself, as I find i am often discouraged and frustrated when I have what is called " monkey mind" (approximately 90% of the time!). This has been most helpful, not necessarily for slowing down my active mind but not being further distressed by its clamor.

    And second...settling my breathing will often help settle my mind. An agitated rapid breath creates an agitated mind. Sometimes just shining the light of attention on my breath will settle it and consequently settle my mind. It's a physiological phenomenon.

    thank you for the interesting discussion.


    Anne

  17. #17
    I find I practice when my body and mind calls me to do it.
    There is no right or wrong way.

    For example, I find when I watch my daughter, there are moments when her mind is quiet and moments when it is so excited by the simple things around her. It is in the moments when I can see she is ready to focus, that I teach her. The same if for your mind, you are the only person who knows when it is ready. "Monkey mind" or not; only you know the best time for your body and mind to be one with your self.
    The beautiful thing about Life is that it is always moving, She does not wait for anyone to be ready for anything. Enjoy that your mind is so active My ailing grandmother has Alzheimer's, and when she is "concious" of her memory loss, she wishes for moments when she can just "think."
    It has made me aware to appreciate the "clouds" passing through, because one day I may not have them. However, getting them to behave is a work in progress

    As Jundo says: "Just sit."

    Gassho,

    Chelsea

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by LucardieC View Post
    My ailing grandmother has Alzheimer's, and when she is "concious" of her memory loss, she wishes for moments when she can just "think."
    Thank you Chelsea and much metta to you and your granny. I too understand this as my granny is in the beginning stages of Dementia ... the thankful presence of each moment is very important. =)

    Gassho
    Shingen
    倫道 真現

    As a trainee priest, please take any commentary by me on matters of the Dharma with a pinch of salt.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Clark's Avatar
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    Hello
    Maybe you will find sitting when it is most difficult, to be of the most benefit. Not doing so when it is easy but just doing so, easy, difficult; morning, night.

    Gassho
    C

  20. #20
    Senior Member bayamo's Avatar
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    It's been almost a year since I first posted this, and I find it to still be the case. When I sit first thing in the morning my mind goes wicked nutso all over the place. If I run an errand or two and come back home, the mind seems much calmer. I understand we sit with what we have at moment, but the ones where my mind races almost leave me stressed.
    Meh, it is what it is.

    Oh yeah, if I didn't have inner peace, I'd completely go psycho on all you guys, all the time. Carl Carlson
    #SatToday, so I got that going for me, which is nice..
    Oh, yeah. If I didn't have inner peace, I'd go completely psycho on all you guys all the time.
    Carl Carlson

  21. #21
    When I first learned to sit the mind was bucking and rebelling. It was because the kind of sitting involved quieting the mind through concentration and absorption. Eventually it did get trained to settle, but after the sitting was finished it would be just as busy as before. Someone once described that kind of practice as placing a flat rock over grass, and that feels about right. When I learned to "just sit" the mind was "allowed" (there was no one allowing anything) to be natural within an open awareness. It was a relief. That awareness is not a doing, more like a simple space. I shouldn't talk about this too much.. but the upshot is that in a way my mind is no more settled that it ever was, only now it is (more) peaceful because the self-interfering or self-knotting has ebbed away just by sitting daily. It does what it does, and mostly it does what is good. Sometimes it just pauses, and there is no thought, but this just happens. I used to grasp at those as special experiences, but not anymore.

    Also, I used to have an attitude of sitting though pain and exhaustion, thinking that it would fry away "me", ..and it did in a way. There were experiences that I made much of. But in the end an ordinary sense of self and place is no problem. Now if I'm very tired or have a headache or some responsibility calls me away, it is no problem to just get up and go sleep, or do what needs to be done. Sitting daily is a very basic part of saner living, and over time the existential questions have been settled along with the ok-ness of being a very human being.

    Saying too much maybe. take it with a grain of salt.

    Gassho
    Daizan

    Just about to close the laptop and go sit.
    Last edited by Daizan; 12-09-2014 at 02:25 PM.
    大山

  22. #22
    Hello,

    Hard to say.
    Maybe so.
    Don't know.

    I like these answers because it's my path to travel alone and there are no fast and hard rules. But we are a Soto bunch and the best answer in this part of the world might be:

    Just Sit.

    Gassho, Jishin

    #SatToday
    治 Ji
    心​ Shin

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Daizan View Post
    When I first learned to sit the mind was bucking and rebelling. It was because the kind of sitting involved quieting the mind through concentration and absorption. Eventually it did get trained to settle, but after the sitting was finished it would be just as busy as before. Someone once described that kind of practice as placing a flat rock over grass, and that feels about right. When I learned to "just sit" the mind was "allowed" (there was no one allowing anything) to be natural within an open awareness. It was a relief. That awareness is not a doing, more like a simple space. I shouldn't talk about this too much.. but the upshot is that in a way my mind is no more settled that it ever was, only now it is (more) peaceful because the self-interfering or self-knotting has ebbed away just by sitting daily. It does what it does, and mostly it does what is good. Sometimes it just pauses, and there is no thought, but this just happens. I used to grasp at those as special experiences, but not anymore.

    Also, I used to have an attitude of sitting though pain and exhaustion, thinking that it would fry away "me", ..and it did in a way. There were experiences that I made much of. But in the end an ordinary sense of self and place is no problem. Now if I'm very tired or have a headache or some responsibility calls me away, it is no problem to just get up and go sleep, or do what needs to be done. Sitting daily is a very basic part of saner living, and over time the existential questions have been settled along with the ok-ness of being a very human being.

    Saying too much maybe. take it with a grain of salt.

    Gassho
    Daizan

    Just about to close the laptop and go sit.
    Lovely.

    Connects to what I try to describe here ...

    http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...l=1#post143590

    Gassho, J
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

    #SAT TODAY!

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Daizan View Post
    Sitting daily is a very basic part of saner living, and over time the existential questions have been settled along with the ok-ness of being a very human being.
    That gives me hope

    Thanks.


    Gassho,
    Walter

    #SatToday
    Gassho,Walter

  25. #25
    Treeleaf Unsui/Engineer Kyonin's Avatar
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    Hi Bayamo,

    Just sit and stop labeling things.

    If the mind feels super busy, sit twice the time.

    Then forget about it all.

    Next day, repeat.

    Gassho,

    Kyonin
    #SatToday
    Please remember I am only a priest in training. I could be wrong in everything I say. Slap me if needed.

    The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one. Mr. Spock

  26. #26
    Senior Member bayamo's Avatar
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    ¡Gracias!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyonin View Post
    Hi Bayamo,

    Just sit and stop labeling things.

    If the mind feels super busy, sit twice the time.

    Then forget about it all.

    Next day, repeat.

    Gassho,

    Kyonin
    #SatToday


    Oh yeah, if I didn't have inner peace, I'd completely go psycho on all you guys, all the time. Carl Carlson
    #SatToday
    Oh, yeah. If I didn't have inner peace, I'd go completely psycho on all you guys all the time.
    Carl Carlson

  27. #27
    Senior Member Joyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    Active or inactive doesn't matter. A healthy brain produces thoughts. When you are sitting you are probably more aware of them. I wouldn't skip a morning sit because of them. I would have quit this practice long ago if having an active brain was a showstopper. Samadhi can be one moment.
    Great advice, Rich! How true. My mind is often very active during am and pm sittings but it doesn't matter so much to me anymore. As I sit and focus on nothing, I find it kind of entertaining as it's amazing what crazy stuff the mind will bring up.

    Gassho,
    Joyo
    sat today

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