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Thread: Arrousing the Way seeking mind. Huh?

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Shonin's Avatar
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    Arrousing the Way seeking mind. Huh?

    So , as I have previously mentioned, I'm still reading a book that is a collection of Dogen's teachings from other writings. Not being the first time I have come across the phrase, I'm a little confused by it. He mentions arousing the Way seeking mind or arousing the aspiration for enlightenment.
    Perhaps I have just misunderstood, but without quoting any particular passages, it seems that he speaks of this as something to strive for over the course of our practice. not something one begins with when the first beginning to learn and follow the Way.
    Am wondering if someone would be so kind as to educate me on what is meant by this? For me it sounds like what happens when we decide to take the Precepts and live the Way. That aspiration to continue the practice. That desire many of us feel to keep sitting, the reason why we remain Zen practitioners. But it seems as if he is using this terminology to describe something beyond that.
    Most of you are much more versed with the various sutras and writings of the buddha ancestors than I am. So It would be appreciated if someone could illuminate the subject a bit for me.

    Dave _/\_

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Shonin View Post
    So , as I have previously mentioned, I'm still reading a book that is a collection of Dogen's teachings from other writings. Not being the first time I have come across the phrase, I'm a little confused by it. He mentions arousing the Way seeking mind or arousing the aspiration for enlightenment.
    Perhaps I have just misunderstood, but without quoting any particular passages, it seems that he speaks of this as something to strive for over the course of our practice. not something one begins with when the first beginning to learn and follow the Way.
    Am wondering if someone would be so kind as to educate me on what is meant by this? For me it sounds like what happens when we decide to take the Precepts and live the Way. That aspiration to continue the practice. That desire many of us feel to keep sitting, the reason why we remain Zen practitioners. But it seems as if he is using this terminology to describe something beyond that.
    Most of you are much more versed with the various sutras and writings of the buddha ancestors than I am. So It would be appreciated if someone could illuminate the subject a bit for me.

    Dave _/\_
    I'll be interested to see what the teachers here (Jundo and Taigu and everyone else, I mean) have to say about this.

    I have always, always loved the phrase "Way-seeking Mind" and Dogen telling us to "activate the way-seeking Mind."

    I have some feeling about it: even though we live in and amongst pain and suffering, and even worse, distraction, the Way-Seeking Mind is original mind; the mind that is the way, how already are, undefiled, even amidst all the dirty and dust. If I remember correctly, Dogen never says "seek" the way-seeking mind. He says activate it. Then mind naturally seeks its own way. Now, how do we activate it? This is different than seeking enlightenment, I think. And it's not the desire to keep sitting. To me it's the mind that sits always calm and clear even in the distractions and messiness of Samsara; the mind that seeks the way not through but as both pain and suffering and joy and love and everything in between.

    I could be so far off on this...Thank you for bringing it up. A seriously great question!

    gassho
    Shōmon

  3. #3
    Senior Member Clark's Avatar
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    Very interested in an answer on this one also. It sounds more to me that it is not necessarily about taking on the precepts as much as a mindset that seeks to cultivate, live in, and strive for sticking with the way.

  4. #4
    Just keep coming back to this moment.

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    Rich
    MUHYO
    無 (MU, Emptiness) and 氷 (HYO, Ice) ... Emptiness Ice ...

  5. #5
    Senior Member Shonin's Avatar
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    Clark, see that's how I viewed it. But in a few passages it seemed to be something beyond that. Which is why I asked.
    Alan, thanks for the response. Gives me some food for thought. Thanks.
    Rich _/\_

  6. #6
    Dogen always spoke out of "both sides of his no sided mouth".

    Of course we "seek enlightenment" around here. It would not be Zen Buddhism if we did not. Who said otherwise? Certainly not me! I like to say ...

    Who ever said that there is "nothing to find" in, through and as this practice of "not seeking", no place to "get", no treasure to snare at the end of the rainbow?

    Not me. I never would say such a thing. Then why pursue this path?

    Who ever said there is no "enlightenment" to be achieved? I never would say that. It would not be Buddhism in that case.

    What's more, this practice lets us be happy, joyful. Who said not? Not me.

    Ya really got to pay attention to what is being said. You see:

    Just because we are "not seeking" does not mean we are "not seeking" ... nor that there aren't wondrous marvels thus to find!

    Enlightenment!

    To the marrow sitting free of seeking ... is a dandy way thus to find that which can only be found by sitting radically free of seeking. Realizing that there is no where to "get to", and no place you can get or need get ... is finally getting somewhere that will revolutionize life, and put your "you" out of a job. One gets very far, one finally arrives ... by sitting still.

    Being the "Buddha" all along, and having not a thing about you that is in need of change ... that does not mean you don't have some work to do to realize truly that you are the Buddha without need of change ... and quite of few bad habits to change in order to realize so. To realize that you are never, from the outset, in need of change is a VERY BIG CHANGE! There is absolutely nothing about you and the universe (not two) to add or take away, and tasting that there is "nothing to add" is an irreplaceably important addition!

    By being "goalless" we hit the goal ... a goal which is hit by being thoroughly goalless.

    In seeing the ordinary as sacred ... we find (as Hakuin Zenji wrote) "this earth where we stand is the Pure Lotus Land, and this very body the body of Buddha". This very life is it!
    http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...-enlightenment

    We must first arouse the will to the Truth in our hearts, then press ahead in Practice with diligence, sincerity and attention.

    But a vital point of the discovery, as we push ahead up the mountain, is that the mountain has been ever underfoot, from the bottomless bottom to the topless top ... and that every step is total arrival, and in fact "your" climbing the mountain is just the mountain mountaining mountain ... even as you forge ahead. Dogen wrote many times (this from Shobogenzo Gyoji, Ceaseless Practice) ...

    The Great Way of Buddhas and Ancestors invariably involves unsurpassed ceaseless practice. This practice rolls on in a cyclic manner without interruption. Not a moment’s gap has occurred in their giving rise to the intention to realize Buddhahood, in their doing the training and practice, in their experiencing enlightenment, and in their realizing nirvana, for the Great Way of ceaseless practice rolls on just like this. ...
    In Bendowa he wrote ...

    The view that practice and realization are not one is skewed outside of the Way. In the Buddha Dharma practice and realization are one and the same. This is the practice of realization, and so from the beginning practice is the whole body of original Awakening.And so the instructions are to not to seek Awakening outside of the practice because the practice itself points directly to original Awakening. As it is always already the realization of practice, there is no end to realization. As it is the practice of realization, there is no beginning to practice.... The traces of the Transmission in the Buddha Dharma are all like this.
    Trudging forward up the mountainless mountain, sometimes the clouds open and all bounds drop away. Yet, more vital than even such open skies and the very vanishing of self, one realizes that every step up the Buddha-mountain is Buddha climbing Buddha all along.

    Something like that.

    Gassho, J
    Last edited by Jundo; 10-08-2013 at 02:18 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  7. #7
    Senior Member Shonin's Avatar
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    Thanks, Jundo. _/\_
    "We must first arouse the will to the Truth in our hearts, then press ahead in Practice with diligence, sincerity and attention."

    So , am I to understand that the basic meaning is the point where we stop looking at Zen as a "possibility" and really,fully throw ourselves into our practice? Live it, breath it, eat it and shit it? So to speak?

    Dave _/\_

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Shonin View Post
    Thanks, Jundo. _/\_
    "We must first arouse the will to the Truth in our hearts, then press ahead in Practice with diligence, sincerity and attention."

    So , am I to understand that the basic meaning is the point where we stop looking at Zen as a "possibility" and really,fully throw ourselves into our practice? Live it, breath it, eat it and shit it? So to speak?

    Dave _/\_
    Every moment of each day, on and off the cushion, is sacred, whole, an 'opportunity for practice'. Bring sincerity and dedication into any moment of life, and such is Buddha.

    Walking is Buddha walking Buddha, waiting on customers is Buddha waiting on Buddha, sitting on the sofa watching tv eating chips is Buddha sitting Buddha watching Buddha munchiing Buddha, driving a car is Buddha driving down Buddha.

    Just drop all resistance to just this moment, then in what moment are you not fully actualizing the moment?

    As Rich said above, Just This Moment.

    Gassho, J
    Last edited by Jundo; 10-08-2013 at 02:15 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Bring sincerity and dedication into any moment of life, and such is Buddha.
    Thanks Jundo ... and thank you Shonin for the question.

    Gassho
    Shingen
    倫道 真現

    As a trainee priest, please take any commentary by me on matters of the Dharma with a pinch of salt.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Clark's Avatar
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    Thank you Jundo and Shonin

    I think I understand what you are saying Jundo. All of life is our temple. The practice leads to the awakening, but the awakening is also continued practice.

    Gassho

    C

  11. #11
    Senior Member Shonin's Avatar
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    Thanks, Jundo. I have a better idea of it now.
    Dave _/\_

  12. #12
    "Just This Moment"... YEa!!! Thanks for the question...thanks for the answer Jundo.

    Gassho

    kb
    Dancing between stillness and motion I find peace.

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