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Thread: If everything has Buddha-nature...

  1. #51
    Hi Enkyo,

    Perhaps we need to just embrace life's "How", dance this "How", respect this "How", sit Zazen embodying "How" . . . doing the best we can in any moment of this messy world.

    Gassho, J
    Last edited by Jundo; 10-08-2013 at 08:19 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  2. #52
    This thread seems to have much in common with the one on way-seeking mind. If every action (sitting, cooking, cleaning) is done with way-seeking mind for the benefit of all beings, what could be missing? Without that inclusion of all beings life and practice can feel quite flat. I understand how the Bodhisattva vow and even the global service days can produce feelings of unworthiness (they do in me anyway) but as Mother Teresa said ' it is not always possible to do great things but we can do small things with great love'.

    When Nelson Mandela he was in prison he kept himself in physical and mental shape. When asked what kept him going he said that he knew he was either going to die in there or else his country would need him. His love for his country and its people was there in every single action.

    So we sit for all beings, cook for all beings, clean for all beings and sleep for all beings, each little action motivated by great love.

    Right now in my practice, it seems that there is so much to this zen thing that I couldn't explain it in a million years, and yet there is so little to it that it seems very silly when I try.
    I love this, Catfish! Seems to me that when we do it, it is simple. When we try and understand it, we might as well try and catch the Higgs-Boson with our teeth!

    Thank you all for the questions and answers.

    Deep bows
    Andy

  3. #53
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
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    How does not require a fixed and precise answer. It is what opens the open, make the dynamic compassion possible. Like my Bro says.

    Gassho

    T.
    Taigu, teacher at Treeleaf Sangha, was born in 1964, started Zazen early and received Shukke Tokudo in 1983 at age 18 from Rev. Mokusho Zeisler of the Deshimaru Lineage. Received Dharma Transmission from Chodo Cross in 2002. Now resides in Osaka, Japan.

  4. #54
    Enkyo - thank you for your heart-felt thoughts. I am actually very moved by what you have written and 'am going to struggle to give an adequate response.

    I think I hit the point you're at some months ago and also felt perturbed because I didn't feel my 'question' was fully answered from within my practice or by any specific zen teaching. I am still grappling with this - perhaps will always be grappling with this - because the 'tension' is all part and parcel of being human.

    You mentioned 'boundless space' and the 'tight rubber band' of the question. This makes sense to me - to live within this juxtaposition is to be wholy human.

    I think it takes time to feel remotely comfortable with such a position. It's discomforting to find that despite our best efforts the pain of acknowledging that the world is full of difficulty and tragedy doesn't ease - it may even get more intense.

    But Taigu speaks of joy - and this is also true. I think with this practice the sense of joy also increases.

    I now see practice as continual questioning/affirmation/questioning/re-affirmation.

    We sit within 'How?' - and we do the best we can to bring our insight into the whole of life.

    Sorry if this is rambling,

    Gassho

    Willow

  5. #55
    Willow, I think you express it beautifully and I have a similar experience. Sometimes practice seems full and meaningful, sometimes pointless, often somewhere in between.

    Living with that open question of 'how?' leaves us open and vulnerable to feeling unworthy and never quite arriving at the place of an answer.

    Your last line seems to say it perfectly:

    We sit within 'How?' - and we do the best we can to bring our insight into the whole of life.
    Thank you
    Andy

  6. #56
    Hello,

    I bow down to all the freshness within these questions and their generous answers within this remarkable thread.

    Having considered the Dogen quote:

    When Dharma does NOT fill your whole body and mind, you think it is already sufficient.
    When Dharma DOES fill your whole body and mind, you understand something is missing.


    I feel a dumbed down version like the following still points to an interesting gateway:

    When you don't see the ugliness of samsaric existence anymore, because you're either too foolish or too self satisfied, or too blissful, you've probably removed your ability to enact the Mahayana path as a Bodhisattva.

    When you see the ugliness of samsaric existence for what it is, warts and all, being pulled and pushed in all directions all the time, your practise might actually benefit sentient beings, because only someone who can truly relate, can help effectively.

    Stopping at the ninth ox-herding picture is missing the path completely.

    Gassho,


    Hans Chudo Mongen
    Last edited by Hans; 10-08-2013 at 10:02 AM.
    Chudo Mongen, Ordained Novice Priest-in-Training

  7. #57
    When Dharma does NOT fill your whole body and mind, you think it is already sufficient.
    When Dharma DOES fill your whole body and mind, you understand something is missing.
    Here is some riffing... maybe off the mark, maybe on mark? I don't know, but a muscle somewhere has stopped clenching.

    There is nothing left to hold back. Because there is nothing left to hold back, I have lost my eternal life and belong to the world 100%. A shimmer of instability , a reaching arc of lightening, it is my only life. Something has unmixed, and now I just live and die. In truly living and dying there is joy.

    just riffing...just playing. Gassho Daizan
    Last edited by Daizan; 10-08-2013 at 01:07 PM.
    大山

  8. #58
    Senior Member Clark's Avatar
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    I can see What Jundo, Taigu, and Willow have said about the embracing of HOW? But perhaps a more practical answer can be considered too. So HOW do we help by just sitting?

    He who saves himself saves the world- Author Unknown

    When we take back our original nature, by which sitting is a method to do so, then we can bring that self which is non self out into the world. Our mere presence, our witness of original nature, our being balanced even in the face of all hell breaking around us, in my mind is very inspiring to others. What or who is that that even motivates you to have this need to have this practice BE a benefit to others? Is it the small self or the big self that is having a voice there? How did you rediscover that self? Which self is it that serves coffee in hospitals? Which presence is there in the hospital serving others?

    To me sitting helps me encourage that original self to emerge, again,, and again and again. Then I am more inspired to participate in constructive ways than merely personal gain or pleasure. The small self diminishes to serve the larger self.

    So maybe the answer to the question HOW? is another question.. WHO?

    Gassho C
    Last edited by Clark; 10-08-2013 at 01:53 PM.

  9. #59
    Treeleaf Unsui Shokai's Avatar
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    Perhaps it is just the conditioning that takes place. Last night I had a dream that allowed me to spontaneously respond to a situation that arose earlier this morning; creating a positive spin to the rest of the day. When one sits shikantaza, they are slowly/naturally brought closer to the universal Mind. Had it not been for my practice of zazen I may have just said (in response to the situation), "How am I supposed to act now?" Whereas, I was able to see where I fit in. Zazen eventually allows us to better harmonize with our environment. Even if that is the only effect, you've made the world a better place to be.

    So, now the question is WHY! Why that dream? and Why last night?

    gassho,
    gassho, Shokai, still learning the way and knowing nothing
    仁道 生開 - Jindo Shokai "Open to life in a benevolent way"
    Just another itinerant monk; go somewhere else to listen to someone who really knows.

  10. #60
    Dogen and some other wonderful Teachers had a way to make interrogatives ... Why? How? Who? ... into AFFIRMATIONS! ... WHY! HOW! WHO! ...

    A monk asked Master Kaku of Roya,
    "If the essential state is pure and clear, then why do mountains, rivers and the
    great earth arise?"

    Kaku said,
    "If the essential state is pure and clear, then why do mountains, rivers and the
    great earth arise!"
    Dogen often wrote using interrogatives such as "What," "How," "Why" as declarations of the "Great Matter" the "Inconceivable" or "the Ultimate Mystery". Suzuki Roshi commented this ...

    Dogen-zenji found out a very good Chinese word to express this kind of truth. In Chinese-the Chinese word [is] inmo-or I don't know-know this-how they pronounce it. But inmo has two meaning. One is positive meaning: "suchness," you know. The other is the interrogative meaning: "What is it?" [Laughs.] What-what is inmo? How is inmo? You know, what is it when geese [laughs] came? Horsemaster asked Hyakujo, "What is it?" That "what," you know, what is inmo. Inmo is interrogative, and it is affirmative too.

    This is very convenient word to express the reality. Everything is one side-in one sense it is suchness. On the other hand, it is not-it is something in-it is something which we cannot grasp. For an instance, you know, here is beautiful flower, you know. You think here is beautiful flower, but that beautiful flower is always changing [laughs]. You cannot grasp it, even while you are watching the changes. So you think you see it, but actually you didn't see the flower itself which is changing.

    So everything is in one side something which is-which cannot be grasped, so "What?" The-on the other hand, you know, even for a while it is there in that way. And so it is-everything is suchness, and everything is ingraspable-cannot be grasped. So it is "What?" So inmo-the word inmo has two meaning, and Dogen-zenji found out this is very convenient word to express the reality.
    http://suzukiroshi.sfzc.org/archives...html?seemore=y

    Gassho, J
    Last edited by Jundo; 10-09-2013 at 04:28 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  11. #61
    Hi Jundo,

    That's it! That's it! That's it! That's it! that's it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    If one sits on the zafu, one can never say Look! This is "me" because it is already changed. Like when in an airplane, car or anything moving, you can never say "here I am" because in the time it takes to say or think this, you already are somewhere else. You're here and there and nowhere at the same time. What is reality then? Are you here? Nope, Are you here? Nope etc.

    Still, in relatives we are in the quiet airplane having tea (or in heavy turbulence puking in a bag and hoping it will end soon, your choice), we all are. In absolute we are all crossing the globe screaming fast at nearly Mach 1 and at an altitude of 30.000 feet. We say I'm here, in this airplane, right now because we need to say this or we cannot function.

    To say sitting in the airplane chair is the whole truth and acting like that is a mistake. To say we are nowhere and acting like that is also wrong. Sitting maybe is a lot like looking out the window at times to admire the view, seeing that huge, beautiful globe and all possibilities out there (I often have done this during downtime on long flights). How fast, how high, where, all don't matter. Shut up and see how beautiful and mysterious it all is.

    On long flights a passenger, kids usually but also dads with kids eyes, would sometimes come into the cockpit and always ask "So...where are we exactly?" We always had to laugh about that question. My joke ( all pilots have one) was to look bewildered on a map ( not really the place to look anyway, not the way it works lol) and say: "Aha! so that's where we are going!" A joke, because you don't tell a kid ( or most dads) exactly where we are at that moment. He or she would never get into an airplane again !

    So we are both here and not here. Sutch! and What? at the same time. OH Jundo, how very wonderful! How? HOW!

    How is this Inmo written in Japanese?

    Gassho

    E.

  12. #62
    Senior Member Myosha's Avatar
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    Thank you.


    Gassho,
    Edward
    Practice with humility, respect all beings, avoid attachments, give rise to prajņa from your own awareness, put an end to delusions - Hui-neng

  13. #63
    Treeleaf Unsui Shokai's Avatar
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    何でも --- Jundo, is this close enough (although it only represents one side ! )
    could this be the other side? あの様な

    OR can inmo be written in Japanese?
    Last edited by Shokai; 10-09-2013 at 11:24 AM.
    gassho, Shokai, still learning the way and knowing nothing
    仁道 生開 - Jindo Shokai "Open to life in a benevolent way"
    Just another itinerant monk; go somewhere else to listen to someone who really knows.

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Enkyo View Post
    How is this Inmo written in Japanese?
    恁麼 Immo or Inmo in Japanese, Jenmo in Chinese.

    Here is a sample of Dogen's Shobogenzo Inmo, riffing on Inmo. Yakusan's question reminds me a bit of Enkyo's question here. Nishijima Roshi and Chodo Cross, the translators here, went with "It" for Immo (sounds like the title of a horror flix), but I will try "How." The key phrase is something like ...

    まことにそれ恁麼不恁麼總不得なるゆゑに、恁麼不得なり、不恁麼不得なり
    Truly, because to be like that/it/what/such or not to be like that/it/what/such is altogether impossible, to be like that/it/what/such is impossible and not to be like that/it/what/such is impossible.

    Great Master Musai of Nangakuzan, on one occasion, is asked
    by Yakusan, “The three vehicles and the twelve divisions of the teaching
    I roughly know. [But] I have heard that in the south there is direct pointing
    at the human mind, realizing the nature and becoming buddha. Frankly, I
    have not clarified [how] yet. I beg you, Master, out of compassion, to teach
    me [how].”

    This is Yakusan’s question. Yakusan in the past had been a lecturer;
    he had thoroughly understood the meaning of the three vehicles and
    the twelve divisions of the teaching [i.e., Buddhist philosophy in the books].
    So it seems there was no Buddha-Dharma at all that was unclear to him. ... The great
    master says, “To [get How] is impossible. Not to [get How] is impossible.
    To [get How] or not to [get How] is altogether impossible. What do
    you make of How?” These are the words spoken by the great master for Yakusan.
    Truly, because “to [get How] or not to [get How] is altogether impossible,”
    “to [get How] is impossible” and “not to [get How] is impossible.”
    “[How]” describes [how]. How is not [a matter of] the limited usefulness of
    words and not [a matter of] the unlimited usefulness of words: we should
    learn “How” in the state of impossibility, and we should inquire into “impossibility”
    in the state of “How.” It is not that this concrete “How,” and “the impossible,”
    are relevant only to the consideration of buddhas. To understand it is
    impossible. To realize it is impossible.
    http://www.bdkamerica.org/digital/dB...enzo2_2008.pdf

    Enkyo ... How's That?!!? Do you "get It" or find It impossible?

    Gassho, J
    Last edited by Jundo; 10-10-2013 at 04:53 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  15. #65
    Thank you Jundo. You have been SOOOOOOO generous and patient!

    I feel so small and won't push my luck and fortune any further today. This HOW I will study, think about it, search for in other texts, munch and crunch, then throw it away and go sit only to return to HOW. Sit closest to the door and start anew and fresh, all over again.

    Redundancy question: In the last line you left "it" as "it". This because in the last sentences "it" refers to what has been said before, correct?

    Great stuff to work with! Love it!

    Deep bows

    Enkyo

  16. #66
    Treeleaf Unsui Shokai's Avatar
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    Already being a person who is it, why worry about the matter that is it?
    Thank you Jundo and Enkyo

    gassho,

    _/\_ _/\_ _/\_
    gassho, Shokai, still learning the way and knowing nothing
    仁道 生開 - Jindo Shokai "Open to life in a benevolent way"
    Just another itinerant monk; go somewhere else to listen to someone who really knows.

  17. #67
    Senior Member pinoybuddhist's Avatar
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    I've been following this discussion for quite some time. Nothing to add - just savoring the exchange. Thank you all for the discussion.



    Rafael

  18. #68
    How now brown cow.

    Sent from my RM-860_nam_usa_100 using Tapatalk
    _/_
    Rich
    MUHYO
    無 (MU, Emptiness) and 氷 (HYO, Ice) ... Emptiness Ice ...

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Enkyo View Post

    Redundancy question: In the last line you left "it" as "it". This because in the last sentences "it" refers to what has been said before, correct?
    Is It? Is It!
    Last edited by Jundo; 10-12-2013 at 02:30 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  20. #70
    Senior Member ZenHarmony's Avatar
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    Wow

  21. #71
    Nothing to add to this thread, lots to learn. Thanks to all.

    kb

    Gassho
    Dancing between stillness and motion I find peace.

  22. #72
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
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    Your question, Robt, has a taste of medieval debate: do angels have a sex? And if so which one?

    In dokusan , you don t even get into the room.

    In life, I don't know.

    Don't misundestand me, please, you are a very sincere and dedicated person, and that's why This will be my answer!

    Where do your question comes from?

    Please, investigate.


    Gassho


    T.
    Taigu, teacher at Treeleaf Sangha, was born in 1964, started Zazen early and received Shukke Tokudo in 1983 at age 18 from Rev. Mokusho Zeisler of the Deshimaru Lineage. Received Dharma Transmission from Chodo Cross in 2002. Now resides in Osaka, Japan.

  23. #73
    Senior Member Myosha's Avatar
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    Thank you.


    Gassho,
    Edward
    Practice with humility, respect all beings, avoid attachments, give rise to prajņa from your own awareness, put an end to delusions - Hui-neng

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Taigu View Post
    Your question, Robt, has a taste of medieval debate: do angels have a sex? And if so which one?
    Well, now I am curious. DO angels have sex? And "which one" what?

    I had to check. Seems there is something of a debate on this:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=do+a...m=122&ie=UTF-8

    Gassho, J
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  25. #75
    Senior Member Oheso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taigu View Post

    In dokusan , you don t even get into the room.

    In life, I don't know.
    in life, pretty much the same as in dokusan.

    thank you.
    only saps buy vowels

  26. #76
    Hey Jundo,

    Sure they do! And the planet Tatooeene exists because George Lucas told us!

  27. #77
    Senior Member Clark's Avatar
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    This seems a little more like Ancient Aliens than some council on Angelic Romance.
    Gassho
    C
    Last edited by Clark; 10-14-2013 at 02:57 AM.

  28. #78
    Yeah, just messing, sorry. Angels talk is very tricky, always the danger of talking football on the tennis court again. Letīs not go there.

    Gassho

    E.

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