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Thread: A few pointers from Genjokoan

  1. #1

    A few pointers from Genjokoan

    For LimoLama...


    In the furnace of summer, the timeless; in whirling snowflakes, the timeless; in heavy traffic and rush hours, the timeless,;in the cool breeze over the lake, the timeless, in puddles, rubbish bags, flowers and weeds, towers of steel and mountains deep, the timeless.

    You cannot leave this place and this time, therefore it is within this time and place that the timelees unfolds.

    In the Genjokoan Eihei Dogen teaches about ashes being only ashes, firewood only firewood, he says that Spring does not become Summer. A child does not grow into an adult. We are lived by thusness and every manifestation has no before or after.

    What is the before of the wave? What is its after?A wave cannot be separated from sea- land- sky- planet- galaxy- universe, all sentient beings arise in one wave. A single wave doesn t meet its origin, does not touch its end. Life is nothing but life, death nothing but death. Every single timeless manifestation reflects the roundness of the moon.

    Worries, projects, becoming, coming and going are narratives and stories, fictions and frictions made by a a fearful and shaky self.

    To surrender, to drop body and mind, is to allow the great body of reality to fully live our life, and not to mind much, not to worry. It is not up to us to do the work. We are very good at messing things up.

    There is no Buddha out of this life of ours and it is too big to understand. That's why we sit and let Buddha do it all. As we sit we manifest enlightened activity without knowing or seeing. Nobody, No Buddha left to care or mind anyway.
    Last edited by Taigu; 08-29-2013 at 01:12 AM.

  2. #2
    Treeleaf Unsui Shokai's Avatar
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    *** ***
    gassho, Shokai, still learning the way and knowing nothing
    仁道 生開 - Jindo Shokai "Open to life in a benevolent way"
    Just another itinerant monk; go somewhere else to listen to someone who really knows.

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    Senior Member YuimaSLC's Avatar
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    Richard

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    Senior Member pinoybuddhist's Avatar
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    Rafael

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    Treeleaf Unsui Yugen's Avatar
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    I need to be reminded of the manifestation of thusness at this moment. Thank you Taigu.

    Deep bows
    Yugen
    Please take all my comments with a grain of salt - I am a novice priest and anything I say is to be taken with a good dose of skepticism - Shodo Yugen

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Taigu View Post
    To surrender, to drop body and mind, is to allow the great body of reality to fully live our life, and not to mind much, not to worry.
    Thank you Taigu.

    Gassho
    Shingen



    If you cannot find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?
    ~ Dogen Zenji

  7. #7
    Treeleaf Unsui Myozan Kodo's Avatar
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    Wow! Svaha!
    Gassho
    Myozan
    Myozan Kodo
    Ordained Soto Zen Priest in Training
    Dublin, Ireland

    As a trainee priest, please take any commentary by me on matters of the Dharma with a pinch of salt.
    "Here the way unfolds."

  8. #8


    Willow

  9. #9
    Senior Member Heisoku's Avatar
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    Taigu!
    Gassho, Gassho, Gassho.
    Heisoku
    平 息

  10. #10
    Dear Taigu, I am touched by your poetic words - I did not expect such a response to be honest, I feel honoured.
    Right now I feel like a sponge soaking your words in, but there is so much water that I'll have to do it slowly and again and again.
    Thank you so much!


    Gassho,

    Timo
    no thing needs to be added

  11. #11
    Oh! Taigu what a Teacher you are!

    Deep Bows

    David

  12. #12
    Gassho,

    Daido


  13. #13
    Senior Member Myosha's Avatar
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    With gratitude,


    Gassho,
    Edward
    Practice with humility, respect all beings, avoid attachments, give rise to prajña from your own awareness, put an end to delusions - Hui-neng

  14. #14
    Senior Member Joyo's Avatar
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    Thank you, teacher, I really needed to read this tonight!!

    Gassho,
    Treena

  15. #15
    Gassho,
    and yes ... 'Wow' was in my mind too,
    thank you
    Myoku

  16. #16
    To surrender, to drop body and mind, is to allow the great body of reality to fully live our life, and not to mind much, not to worry. It is not up to us to do the work. We are very good at messing things up.
    I need to post this somewhere, so that I can see it every day! Oh, how I can mess things up .
    Thank you for this.

    Gassho,
    Kelly/Jinmei

  17. #17
    Senior Member Shujin's Avatar
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    Thank you for sharing.

    Gassho.

  18. #18
    Deep gassho Taigu.

    "Know that the practice of zazen is the complete path of buddha-dharma and nothing can be compared to it....it is not the practice of one or two buddhas but all the buddha ancestors practice this way."
    Dogen zenji in Bendowa






  19. #19
    Thank you, Taigu.

    Gassho.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Taigu View Post
    For LimoLama...

    In the Genjokoan Eihei Dogen teaches about ashes being only ashes, firewood only firewood, he says that Spring does not become Summer. A child does not grow into an adult. We are lived by thusness and every manifestation has no before or after.
    Taigu sensei,

    Please bear with me, but I don't get this... this part of Genjokoan has always bothered me, irked me... because I want to understand it, but I can't.

    Dogen writes about deep belief in cause and effect. Zen is all about cause and effect.. reality, this is now because of that. I can never wrap my head around this... it's like Dogen's throwing that to the wind and saying ash is only ash, but there wouldn't be any ash except for the firewood! In that sense, isn't the firewood part of the cause of the ash? Isn't the firewood before, and the ash after?

    If we froze time, and we just saw the ash I guess it could be separated, but in reality isn't the ash only the result of the firewood? In reality time isn't frozen. From what perspective is Dogen speaking when he says ash is only ash?

    I guess if I look at my life. The way I am now is a result of all the moments of my life... so childhood is before and where I am now is after that. But I suspect I am wrong and that's what Dogen is hitting upon, but I just don't understand.

    Thank you for your time; like I said this has been driving me a little nuts. lol

    Gassho,

    Risho

  21. #21
    Hello Risho,

    Taigu wrote this in response to a message of mine, so perhaps it would be helpful if I posted part of my original message to give some context?
    (I was drawn between posting and not posting it...).
    Anyway, I hope to give some context by this:

    My original message:
    When we sit we actualize the moon.
    However, isn't it also the other way round? The moon actualizes itself through me, you, everything.
    There is no finger pointing at the moon! The moon is looking at itself, all the time, whether "good" or "bad", whether we sit or not.
    How beautiful, strange, extraordinary and somehow also ordinary...
    But how to put this into practice in everyday life? This is the difficult part, I guess.
    Gassho,

    Timo
    no thing needs to be added

  22. #22
    Hello Risho I share your struggle and thank you for being so honest in sharing your difficulty with this part of Dogen's teaching.

    With Dogen - I don't mind too much if my logical mind comes to a screeching halt before a logical brick wall, but I find a poetic sensibility struggles with the summer/spring teaching. For me there is a certain point in the changing of seasons when spring imperceptibly bleeds into summer - summer into autumn - autumn into winter - winter into spring. There is a beautiful continuity of movement and time flowing. When I try to synthesize this with the discreet moment - no past no future it can a jar a little - even though I intuitively know this also to be true.

    I think though the point is more to do with the whole of time being drawn within each moment - less to do with cause and effect? Because each moment is passing quickly we do not need to freeze time - it is perhaps the opposite to freezing time as the thusness of each moment becomes totally free. This is the beauty of Zen - we do not deny cause and effect but we are not shackled to it. The firewood and the ash may be logically connected but they are also totally liberated from each other.

    I could be completely wrong on all this but it is my limited understanding thus far.

    Gassho

    Willow

  23. #23
    Senior Member Heisoku's Avatar
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    Thank you Willow, I find understanding or seeing the thusness beyond cause and effect, before and later tricky, and you have helped describe this really well. Gassho.
    Heisoku
    平 息

  24. #24
    I think though the point is more to do with the whole of time being drawn within each moment - less to do with cause and effect? Because each moment is passing quickly we do not need to freeze time - it is perhaps the opposite to freezing time as the thusness of each moment becomes totally free. This is the beauty of Zen - we do not deny cause and effect but we are not shackled to it. The firewood and the ash may be logically connected but they are also totally liberated from each other.



    Willow...you are a star. And the words you express are so in tune and true!
    Tomorrow, I will take some time to answer an give a few other pointers to everybody.

    For now, time to sleep.

    Gassho


    Taigu
    Taigu, teacher at Treeleaf Sangha, was born in 1964, started Zazen early and received Shukke Tokudo in 1983 at age 18 from Rev. Mokusho Zeisler of the Deshimaru Lineage. Received Dharma Transmission from Chodo Cross in 2002. Now resides in Osaka, Japan.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Oheso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willow View Post

    I think though the point is more to do with the whole of time being drawn within each moment - less to do with cause and effect? Because each moment is passing quickly we do not need to freeze time - it is perhaps the opposite to freezing time as the thusness of each moment becomes totally free. This is the beauty of Zen - we do not deny cause and effect but we are not shackled to it. The firewood and the ash may be logically connected but they are also totally liberated from each other.
    this also helps my understanding and I thank you, Willow.

    thank you, Taigu Sensei. what was written for LimoLama has also helped me.

    gassho,

    Robert
    Last edited by Oheso; 08-31-2013 at 02:05 PM.
    “The snow is so beautiful, each flake lands in the same place.” - layman P'ang, 8th cen CE

  26. #26
    Thank you Limo and Willow!

    Gassho,

    Risho

  27. #27
    Senior Member Heion's Avatar
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    Such beautiful words! I have been able to grasp so much of your wise words! The teachings of oneness are not so vague to me anymore!

    The last paragraph I do not understand
    "Thats why we sit and let the Buddha do it all." Does this mean to put reliance into some sort of Buddha or what? Is it relying while being independent and leaning while supporting oursleves? This I do not understand. Thank you for your patience and wise words.

    Deep gassho,
    Alex

  28. #28
    Hi Alex,

    To let the Buddha do it all, is in my clouded eyes, not to rely on floating Buddhas in distant heavens, but simply to allow the true form that we are, the original face to manifest itself without interfering with fears, agendas, goals and targets( that is the messing side of things we are good at).

    Gassho

    Taigu
    Last edited by Taigu; 09-01-2013 at 09:24 PM. Reason: Correcting mistakes
    Taigu, teacher at Treeleaf Sangha, was born in 1964, started Zazen early and received Shukke Tokudo in 1983 at age 18 from Rev. Mokusho Zeisler of the Deshimaru Lineage. Received Dharma Transmission from Chodo Cross in 2002. Now resides in Osaka, Japan.

  29. #29
    Senior Member Heion's Avatar
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    Thank you so much for clearing that up!

    Much metta


  30. #30
    Thank you.

    Anzan

  31. #31
    Senior Member Seizan's Avatar
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    Thank you Taigu, Deep Gassho

  32. #32
    There is ash in relation firewood, thus firewood may become ash in due time. Yet there is ash in its absolute sense where ash is ash and there is nothing but ash. Nowhere for ash to go in time relative to firewood. Likewise there is firewood fully realized as firewood in an absolute sense. Nowhere for firewood to go except now. In sitting we go beyond the one (fully realized ash for example) and the many (ash and firewood) dropping away body and mind realizing...

    That's my ignorant take on firewood and ash.

    Gassho, John

  33. #33
    John, I would say that is pretty impressive!

    Gassho

    T.
    Taigu, teacher at Treeleaf Sangha, was born in 1964, started Zazen early and received Shukke Tokudo in 1983 at age 18 from Rev. Mokusho Zeisler of the Deshimaru Lineage. Received Dharma Transmission from Chodo Cross in 2002. Now resides in Osaka, Japan.

  34. #34
    Treeleaf Unsui Myozan Kodo's Avatar
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    Great stuff!
    Gassho
    Myozan
    Myozan Kodo
    Ordained Soto Zen Priest in Training
    Dublin, Ireland

    As a trainee priest, please take any commentary by me on matters of the Dharma with a pinch of salt.
    "Here the way unfolds."

  35. #35
    Willow, you are clear and here.
    In gassho.
    "Know that the practice of zazen is the complete path of buddha-dharma and nothing can be compared to it....it is not the practice of one or two buddhas but all the buddha ancestors practice this way."
    Dogen zenji in Bendowa






  36. #36
    Taigu,

    Thank you.

    Gassho, John

  37. #37
    Lovely, John!

    Gassho,

    Timo
    no thing needs to be added

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