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Thread: To sit under supervision, Jukai and the way it is...

  1. #1

    To sit under supervision, Jukai and the way it is...

    Hello my friends.

    It´s been a good time since I didn´t post something here on this forum.

    Well, here I am again. I missed you, my "Ronin"-Zazen fellas.

    Tryed to apply on several monasteries here in Brazil, but I´m too distant to be accepted I guess...

    The main question is: How one can apply for the next Jukai cerimony? What should one do?

    How can we do Dokusan (at least to "start" having personal interviews to direct practice) with the teachers...?

    Good to be back.

    _/\_

    Marcos
    Gassho,
    _/_
    Marcos

  2. #2
    Hi Marcos,

    I gather you mean Jukai (Undertaking the Precepts) here, in our Sangha? We start preparing each fall by sewing a Rakusu and reflecting on each of the Precepts, among some other activities. The ceremony is in January. If someone feels at home here, in this community and with the Teachers and folks, than one is more than welcome to join in.

    Information on Jukai will be posted as we get close to the time, but here is information from last time.

    http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...I-TIME-2012%21

    As to Dokusan, since we are not a Rinzai community centered on Koan Zazen, our Dokusan is informal in a Soto way. Furthermore, I prefer to keep all discussions and teaching primarily in the open (except for very sensitive, personal and private matters), where all can benefit and join in, the whole community supporting the whole community. So, most teaching and guidance is through this Forum, and I do not have a regular Dokusan meeting with most folks, but I am happy to meet with anyone from time to time to chat. Here are our "office hours", and you can write to arrange a time ...

    http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...for-Dokusan%29

    Gassho, Jundo
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  3. #3
    Dear Marcos,

    welcome back. I'd suggest that you should take your time and simply send an email to either Jundo and/or Taigu to find some time for a first conversation to look into your expectations and motivations. Our teachers offer everyone the opportunity to receive Jukai, all it takes is the right mindset and some commitment.

    Did you already look at the introductory videos and/or read through the forum threads particularly suited for beginners?

    Just relax and take one step after the next, there is no rush...or as some Brits say "Make haste slowly" and get to know the forum and this Sangha step by step.



    Gassho,

    Hans Chudo Mongen
    Last edited by Hans; 07-16-2013 at 02:28 PM.
    Chudo Mongen, Ordained Novice Priest-in-Training

  4. #4
    Treeleaf Unsui Shokai's Avatar
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    hi Marcos;
    Good to see you back again. Reviewing the beginner Videos is good advice; as well, don't forget the Private Message feature

    gassho,
    gassho, Shokai, still learning the way and knowing nothing
    仁道 生開 - Jindo Shokai "Open to life in a benevolent way"
    Just another itinerant monk; go somewhere else to listen to someone who really knows.

  5. #5
    Friends.

    I practice in a daily basis, 30 min. per session, 1 or 2 sessions a day depending on how busy my day is.

    My practice was oriented by the indication of monks (under supervision of Shingetsu Coen Sensei, São Paulo) and I even had the opportunity to have some Dokusan with a Roshi here in Brasil (Dosho Saikawa Roshi on Busshinji Temple, São Paulo).

    But then I´ve returned to my own city, and then there only my books - Shunryu Suzuki classic, Shodoka on Deshimaru´s translation, Joko Beck...

    Based on this, I practice that way: almost all of my time I put into find the "right posture", i.e. the one in which my thoughts lessen - my back straighten, bend left, right, finding my "center" etc..

    Ok, haven "found" this posture, I start to count breaths. 1 for inhaling, 2 for exhaling... until it reaches 10.

    Sometimes my thoughts wander... then when I perceive it, I just come back to the counting.

    And there goes another 30' Zazen session.

    Is there a posture in which thoughts lessen, or at least diminish? How to achieve it?

    What should one do next, will I be doing breath-counting forever in my practice...? how can I know I don´t need this "tool" anymore?

    Thats what I would ask in Dokusan... if I could... I want to move further in my practice and deepen it...

    Gassho,

    Marcos
    Gassho,
    _/_
    Marcos

  6. #6
    Marcos,

    Vai com calma. Tudo na boa. :-)

    Gassho, John


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    治 Ji (Healing)
    心​ Shin (Heart-Mind)

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by mpdalles View Post
    Friends.

    I practice in a daily basis, 30 min. per session, 1 or 2 sessions a day depending on how busy my day is.

    My practice was oriented by the indication of monks (under supervision of Shingetsu Coen Sensei, São Paulo) and I even had the opportunity to have some Dokusan with a Roshi here in Brasil (Dosho Saikawa Roshi on Busshinji Temple, São Paulo).

    But then I´ve returned to my own city, and then there only my books - Shunryu Suzuki classic, Shodoka on Deshimaru´s translation, Joko Beck...

    Based on this, I practice that way: almost all of my time I put into find the "right posture", i.e. the one in which my thoughts lessen - my back straighten, bend left, right, finding my "center" etc..

    Ok, haven "found" this posture, I start to count breaths. 1 for inhaling, 2 for exhaling... until it reaches 10.

    Sometimes my thoughts wander... then when I perceive it, I just come back to the counting.

    And there goes another 30' Zazen session.

    Is there a posture in which thoughts lessen, or at least diminish? How to achieve it?

    What should one do next, will I be doing breath-counting forever in my practice...? how can I know I don´t need this "tool" anymore?

    Thats what I would ask in Dokusan... if I could... I want to move further in my practice and deepen it...

    Gassho,

    Marcos
    Hi Marcos,

    Do go back to our "We're All Always Beginners" Videos, many of which sit with these questions ...

    http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/forum...-FOR-NEW-FOLKS

    But in short, Taigu and I are not focused so much on finding any "right" posture, and any posture that feels comfortable, balanced, can be sat for a long period ... and then forgotten about, dropped from mind ... is good. (Correct me if I do not correctly express you, Taigu).

    We do not constantly focus on putting the mind on the posture or breath, but sit with "open spacious awareness, focused on everything and nothing in particular". We simply let thoughts come and go, but do not grab them and get caught in long trains of thought. We simply let them go, and sit with the silence between and shining right through the thoughts.

    Most importantly, we sit while dropping all judgments ... including judgments about Zazen! Zazen is simply the one and only place to be in that moment, the only act in need of doing for the time we are sitting ... a moment of Zazen just a moment of Buddha. In Zazen, there is truly nothing more in need of attaining ... and attaining that radical "nothing in need of attaining" is a GREAT ATTAINMENT!

    Some teachers place more emphasis on "coming back to the posture" or "following the breadth", and that is fine ... a form of Shikantaza. But for reasons you will see often repeated around here, we sit the above way ... Zazen whole and complete, a full and sacred non-doing beyond all mental evaluations, attaining non-attaining.

    Here is also another talk to look at ...

    http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...CHERS-STUDENTS

    Let's Skype soon and we can talk about it.

    Gassho, J
    Last edited by Jundo; 07-17-2013 at 12:50 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  8. #8
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
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    Jundo speaks my mind, of course. I am now busy writing a text about how to sit, and of course the vids about beginners ( we are all beginners, especially teachers) are very useful.

    Gassho

    T.
    Last edited by Taigu; 07-17-2013 at 02:33 PM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Nameless's Avatar
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    I'm looking forward to Jukai. Practice has changed my life without really changing a thing and I would love to do something as formal as undertaking the Precepts (though I've never tried sowing haha). Gassho, John

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless View Post
    I'm looking forward to Jukai. Practice has changed my life without really changing a thing and I would love to do something as formal as undertaking the Precepts
    Me too...

    Gassho...
    Gassho,
    _/_
    Marcos

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