Tugas Gunadarma Gunadarma Tutorial VB.NET Download OST Anime Soundtrack Anime Opening Anime Ending Anime OST Anime Japan Download Lagu Anime Jepang

Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Keep on sitting after sound of bell?

  1. #1

    Keep on sitting after sound of bell?

    Hello Sangha!

    When I sat today (alone), it was "pretty cloudy", hardly any blue sky in my mind.
    That's no problem for me, I know that sometimes you have one of these days, and I have learnt to accept this.
    Normally, when I hear the bell (I use an App on my smartphone for that), I stop right away, bow, get up, etc.
    However, when today's session came near to its end, there it was - blue sky.
    Then came the bell...
    But instead of stopping, I decided to keep on sitting - I decided it, and after the thought of this decision was gone (hardly a second), again blue sky.
    So extended my sitting for about 1 - 2 minutes.

    I am not sure if this is alright. I mean, normally I always stop right after the bell, because I do not want to give a "calm phase" more importance than a "stormy phase".
    I feel that by extending my session I used the opportunity and gave stillness priority.
    However, isn't Shikantaza about the dropping of body and mind?

    What do you think?

    Gassho,

    Timo
    no thing needs to be added

  2. #2
    Senior Member Shujin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Northeast Georgia
    Posts
    586
    From my very small perspective, I don't see anything wrong with doing this on occasion. The eventual temptation, for me, would be to chase the calm feelings. (my zazen is rather chaotic most of the time) But, ultimately, I don't see it as any different than accepting having to get up before the bell (kids waking in the middle of the night, etc).

    Gassho,
    Shujin

  3. #3
    When I dont follow the bell, it's mostly because I say ok, enough, I am done, no guilt, just done, time to get up. I sit in the AM before work, so when the bell rings I am ready to go and run in place. Accidentally or not, I have stayed put longer then the bell. I think its all good provided I am not sleep when sitting.

    Gassho, JC

  4. #4
    Treeleaf Unsui Dosho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Rochester, NY, USA
    Posts
    5,026
    Timo,

    I think Shujin hit the nail on the head.

    Gassho,
    Dosho
    Shudo Dosho - Ordained Priest-in-Training
    With your help and guidance from Jundo & Taigu
    I am learning, but please take what I say with a
    grain of salt, especially in matters of the Dharma.

  5. #5
    Hi Timo
    Just as Shujin said

    Myself I do sit past the bell when im really itching to go do something else.

    Gassho
    Shohei

  6. #6
    Friend of Treeleaf Myozan Kodo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Posts
    2,107
    Hi,
    Lots of great responses here.

    Also, doesn't the end bell signal the start of Zazen, too?

    Gassho,
    Myozan
    Myozan Kodo
    Ordained Soto Zen Priest in Training
    Dublin, Ireland

    As a trainee priest, please take any commentary by me on matters of the Dharma with a pinch of salt.
    "Here the way unfolds."

  7. #7
    Thanks a lot for all your great answers!

    Really gave me inspiration.

    Gassho,

    Timo
    no thing needs to be added

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Shohei View Post
    Hi Timo
    Just as Shujin said

    Myself I do sit past the bell when im really itching to go do something else.

    Gassho
    Shohei
    Agreed ... sometimes I sit past the bell to not give into the need to do something else.

    Gassho
    Shingen
    倫道 真現

    As a trainee priest, please take any commentary by me on matters of the Dharma with a pinch of salt.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Jakudo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Brantford, Ontario, Canada.
    Posts
    253
    I was taught not to sit past the allotted time given to sit and still practise in this way. I was also taught to never cut short the sitting time, as much as I sometimes would like to bolt up and do something else, or if "I" think Zazen has been especially "good" I resist the urge to be greedy and sit past the bell. But that's just me and my old habits.
    Gassho, Shawn Jakudo Hinton.
    Gassho, Shawn Jakudo Hinton
    It all begins when we say, “I”. Everything that follows is illusion.
    "Even to speak the word Buddha is dragging in the mud soaking wet; Even to say the word Zen is a total embarrassment."
    寂道

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Myozan Kodo View Post
    Hi,
    Lots of great responses here.

    Also, doesn't the end bell signal the start of Zazen, too?

    Gassho,
    Myozan
    Yes, I think so. Whether blue sky or not.

  11. #11
    There are definitely times when the clouds seem to clear right before the bell is going to ring. All of a sudden everything just feels right but, alas, you know that bell is going to ring. And sometimes, sitting after the bell is just fine. Zazen is Zazen, even after the bell. However, I suspect that if you continue to sit because you're holding on to that perfect feeling then there may be too much you on the cushion and not enough just sitting.

  12. #12
    Zazen never begins and it never ends. Nonetheless, sitting (and all life's moments) begin and end (a Koan).

    When the bell rings, we get up and get on with life off the cushion ... also Zazen. Only Zazen seated on the cushion is Zazen, and is indispensable, to be sat each day. Yet all of life, on and off the cushion is Zazen (a Koan).

    Most times I get up when the bell rings. That said, sometimes I might sit a bit long ... but there is nothing special about it. I have sat for many hours without getting up once. A profound Samadhi. I have sat through the night in Sesshin, no bells at all. There are such timeless times. Nothing special, just how Zazen was that day. Sometimes I might sit short because of illness or the baby crying in the next room and needing attention. Nothing special, just how Zazen was that day.

    Long sitting as something better is not what Shikantaza is about. Short sitting, when necessary (not due to mere laziness) as something worse is not what Shikantaza is about. Shikantaza is not a matter of long or short. It is sitting profoundly with what is ... which may sometimes be profound Samadhi, and sometimes crying babies, and most times the Samadhi of just this moment.

    So, yes, once in awhile we may timelessly sit through the bell. Sometimes there may be no bell at all. But most days, we rise with everyone when the bell rings.

    Timo asked:

    I do not want to give a "calm phase" more importance than a "stormy phase" ... However, isn't Shikantaza about the dropping of body and mind?
    Dropping the self's desire and preference for X when life brings us to Y instead ... finding that which holds and transcends X and Y and Z, is "body-mind dropped away". Such is the Open Blue Sky that holds both sun and rain clouds and all life's changing weather. Zazen is not just those times when the clear, open, boundless sky of Samadhi is found (although such timeless moments are vital to this path, a gift, not to be avoided ... come sometimes in almost any sitting on an average day when the sky suddenly peaks through the clouds even for a moment ... and one must sometimelessly lose and find oneself again in boundless crystal sky of profound Samadhi), but also the Sky Samadhi that is present always ... seen or unseen ... amid and as all the changing weather, even the darkest obscuring clouds. This practice is to know and be and find the Sky in all its changing nature ... even when hidden temporarily as stormy days. Even when hidden by clouds, the blue is there all along. Both the blue sky and the clouds are the sky … do not seek to break up the sky by rejecting any part of it (even the parts we reject. A Koan).

    But though sky and clouds are not two, NONETHELESS, DO NOT BECOME LOST IN THE CLOUDS OR SWEPT AWAY BY THE STORM of thoughts and emotions. This is our way in ‘Just Sitting’ Shikantaza Zazen. When you see the clouds, be as if you are thereby seeing the clouds as blue. When you see the blue, you may also see the blue as clouds.

    In fact, as you advance in this practice, you will find that the blue sky illuminates, shines through the clouds … is the very enlightening lightness of floating clouds themselves ... and we can come to experience both together… both cloud and clarity … as one.

    Gassho, Jundo
    Last edited by Jundo; 01-23-2013 at 01:27 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  13. #13
    Senior Member Heisoku's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Plymouth, Devon, UK
    Posts
    1,211
    This is a wonderful teaching Jundo. Thank you and deep bows.
    Heisoku
    平 息

  14. #14
    Treeleaf Unsui/Engineer Kyonin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Mexico
    Posts
    2,861
    Thank you for this teaching, Jundo.

    Gassho,

    Kyonin
    Shuso and Ango leader for September 2014.

    Please remember I am only a priest in training. I could be wrong in everything I say. Slap me if needed.

    The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one. Mr. Spock

  15. #15
    Thanks a lot, Jundo (and all who replied) - this was very helpful indeed!

    Deep bows,

    Timo
    no thing needs to be added

  16. #16
    Senior Member ZenHarmony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Evansburg, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    331


    Lisa

  17. #17
    This has been a very helpful question, Timo. I wonder the same thing from time to time. I tend to make sure I sit until the last bell has finished it's entire chime and then a moment longer so, like others mentioned, to resist the rush of all the other directions I feel pulled.

    Thank you Jundo for your teaching. I can never be told and reminded too many times how all of life is zazen.

    gassho,
    Lindsay aka Yutai

  18. #18
    Senior Member bayamo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Campinas, São Paulo, Brazil
    Posts
    220
    Quote Originally Posted by Myozan Kodo View Post
    Hi,
    Lots of great responses here.

    Also, doesn't the end bell signal the start of Zazen, too?

    Gassho,
    Myozan
    Love this
    Oh, yeah. If I didn't have inner peace, I'd go completely psycho on all you guys all the time.
    Carl Carlson

  19. #19
    Very nice. I wrestled with the feeling of needing to cut my sit short, but dropped it. I just sit, if something comes up where I have to get up, I do just that without any attachment to it.
    Gassho,
    Onken

  20. #20
    I sat past the bell,
    Less tired grasping for learning, more refreshing spirit.

    Mysterious. Just sit.

    Gassho,
    Santosh.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •