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Thread: BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 21

  1. #1

    BOOK OF EQUANIMITY - Case 21



    Case 20 never ends, yet now comes ...

    Case 21 - Ungan Sweeps The Ground

    The Moon, in traditional Zen imagery, symbolizes Reality, Wholeness, Oneness. However, when we look at the moon high in the far off sky, if we feel so distant and apart down here on earth, we create a "second moon" in our eye. That feeling of distance and separation is our making a "second moon". In the Surangama Sutra, for example, the Moon is reality, and the second moon is our perception of reality, one step removed from the first moon as we impose ideas and judgments such as "here" "there", "one" or "two", "beautiful" or "ugly pockmarked wasteland", "full" or "half" or hidden (the moon is always present, even when hidden behind the thickest clouds of our ignorance). There is only One Moon, even when we make it divided.

    Ungan is sweeping, working hard. Dogo asks why bother if a Buddha is free of judgments of "clean" or "dirty"? Why work so hard if "nothing to attain"? A Buddha needs no sweeping, is ever free of dust. Ungan has pierced this fact, yet does not remain in a realm where there is no work to do. Rather, holding up the broom he affirms that "no clean or dirty" is found in the very action of constant cleaning, that "no hard at it" is in being "hard at it", and the Buddha is holding the broom, the Buddha is the broom, the Buddha is the sweeping and (when seen with clear eyes) the Buddha is even the dust and filth which must be made clean.

    There is only One Moon, even when we make it divided. But to the keen eye, even the divisions are always the One Moon too!

    Some folks think that the point of Buddhism is only to realize the "One Moon", free of all dirt and effort. That is something we must realize, but also, we must realize that One Moon and Two Moons are truly Not Two. In Fact, the One Moon is fully two moons, three moons, ten million moons, countless moons. When seen with a Buddha's eye, the Moon shines and illuminates in countless ways and every reflection of the moon is also just the Moon. Dogen has a lovely image of this in Genjo Koan ...

    Enlightenment is like the moon reflected on the water. The moon does not get wet, nor is the water broken. Although its light is wide and great, the moon is reflected even in a puddle an inch wide. The whole moon and the entire sky are reflected in dewdrops on the grass, or even in one drop of water.
    Enlightenment does not divide you, just as the moon does not break the water. You cannot hinder enlightenment, just as a drop of water does not hinder the moon in the sky. The depth of the drop is the height of the moon. Each reflection, however long or short its duration, manifests the vastness of the dewdrop, and realizes the limitlessness of the moonlight in the sky.


    Sweeping is the Moon, is Buddha. Our hard effort is the Buddha free of hindrance and striving.

    In the comments, Gensha reminds us that even a monk's talk about "One Moon" or "two moons" is also making "two moons" (although, don't forget, even "two moons" are the One Moon too). The butler watches the maid, yet both have their cleaning chores to get on with.

    The Preface reminds that, even when we drop away all categories such as "clean" or "dirty" (and likewise, "enlightened" or "deluded", "holy" and "ordinary"), we still need a talent to recognize that clean is not dirty, that enlightenment is not delusion (host and guest are traditional Zen codewords for that), and that what is good is not the same as what is harmful and bad. All things are beyond distinction, yet we must be discerning hosts of good taste!

    The references to "same branch" and "Elephant Bone Crag" and "youngsters" seems to refer to Ungan and Dosho being brother students of the same teacher, a bit of rivals and still rather immature and filled with some callow "showiness" and "oneupmanship" in their Zen understanding.

    Question: Discuss a fault or failing in your personal life or in this world, and how you might work to make it better ... but how there is no fault to make better, and no effort ... and how that fact of "no fault and no fixing and no effort" is found right in fixing the fault and the hard effort.

    Gassho, Jundo
    Last edited by Jundo; 12-12-2012 at 04:45 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  2. #2
    Question: Discuss a fault or failing in your personal life or in this world, and how you might work to make it better ... but how there is no fault to make better, and no effort ... and how that fact of "no fault and no fixing and no effort" is found right in fixing the fault and the hard effort.
    I'm laying here sick in bed from burning the candle at both ends.... there is fault in getting into this state, and it is a faulted karmic state. It needs fixing....through rest and pacing. Yet it is faultlessly so. This does not mean it is faulted while really.. wink wink... being faultless. ....it is not faulted/faultless. It is faulted /faulted. In being faulted faulted, it is faultless. So just being faulted and in need of fixing,.. complete, no game.



    Gassho, kojip.
    大山

  3. #3
    The pinnacle of health!
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  4. #4
    Question: Discuss a fault or failing in your personal life or in this world, and how you might work to make it better ... but how there is no fault to make better, and no effort ... and how that fact of "no fault and no fixing and no effort" is found right in fixing the fault and the hard effort.
    I know for myself I have a tough time saying "No" sometimes, thus my plate gets way too full. But I am learning that when my plate is too full I am not much good for anyone, including myself.

    Gassho
    Michael
    真 眼

    As a trainee priest, please take any commentary by me on matters of the Dharma with a pinch of salt.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by ecoist View Post
    I know for myself I have a tough time saying "No" sometimes, thus my plate gets way too full. But I am learning that when my plate is too full I am not much good for anyone, including myself.

    Gassho
    Michael
    What is the plate that is always Empty Fullness whether empty or full?

    What is the No (MU) that is also YES YES YES whether "yes" or "no"?
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  6. #6
    I think there is only one moon - it has a lit side and a dark side. We can't have a moon with just one side or a moon that is entirely lit or dark.
    Both sides are the moon.

    Since this is a public area I cannot go too much into detail, but I'll try:
    A person close to me is behaving in a harmful way (to herself) lately. My initial tendency was to get too resolute/determined/eager to make her realize it.
    "Can't you see how foolish you are? How you damage yourself?"
    However, I am foolish, too. I must remind myself to accept the facts. Sometimes we see others do foolish things and we just can't do anything about it. Sometimes we are the one doing something foolish.
    I have learnt to trust in the flow of life, and I had to remind myself of it. Eventually, many things just take care of themselves if we just relax and take things more easy, and now in this example I think finally there will be a learning effect.
    The things we find out ourselves are mostly the best teachings. And by letting go of my intention to change things, the person I was talking about has the chance to learn by herself and grow.

    I know without further details it might be hard to understand what I wanted to say...

    Gassho,

    Timo
    no thing needs to be added

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    What is the plate that is always Empty Fullness whether empty or full?

    What is the No (MU) that is also YES YES YES whether "yes" or "no"?
    Thank you Jundo ... Once I read that, I got it.

    Gassho
    Michael
    真 眼

    As a trainee priest, please take any commentary by me on matters of the Dharma with a pinch of salt.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ecoist View Post
    Thank you Jundo ... Once I read that, I got it.

    Gassho
    Michael
    When one comes to the hard moments in life, one will know for sure whether one had "got it" or not, and how profoundly. Like one who knows for themself, on their own tongue, whether water is hot or cold. That's the real life test.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  9. #9
    Senior Member Nengyo's Avatar
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    Question: Discuss a fault or failing in your personal life or in this world, and how you might work to make it better ... but how there is no fault to make better, and no effort ... and how that fact of "no fault and no fixing and no effort" is found right in fixing the fault and the hard effort.
    When I get busy I tend to be inconsistent in my sitting. I may not skip a sitting, but unlike my workout which I tend to stick to closely, I will tend to modify my sit time and duration around my life. I would like to consistently sit early in the morning, but it seems that life often conspires against my plans (either I don't feel motivated upon awakening, I get distracted, the toddler wakes up early too, or the wife needs a hand with something). But I guess as I struggle to make sitting a habit as strong as exercising, there is no struggle. It seems, that according to Jundo and Taigu all life is zazen if approached that way... hopefully even when it doesn't feel that way!

    Also I have a simple question that I'm sure has been answered already, but what exactly is the Book Of Equanimity?
    Try not to be a jerk-- one of the Buddhas

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    When one comes to the hard moments in life, one will know for sure whether one had "got it" or not, and how profoundly. Like one who knows for themself, on their own tongue, whether water is hot or cold. That's the real life test.

    So true Jundo ... I know for myself I used to (sometimes still do) feel guilt when someone asked for help and I was not able to help at that time. Now, even though I want to help and cannot, I know it is not the true reflection of who I am.

    Gassho
    Michael
    真 眼

    As a trainee priest, please take any commentary by me on matters of the Dharma with a pinch of salt.

  11. #11
    Becoming increasingly more aware of the two sides that are not two, living in the dual mind seems easier, like an old pair of shoes. It is through zazen and reading that the "backward step" pivot becomes part of the on going discourse.
    There is a lot of ancient karma to smash.

    My wife keeps a butterfly garden but she needs help. I begrudge it out of pure laziness. More and more without too much regret I help. The garden looks better reflecting my calm. I just bought a Kwan Yin to place there.

    It all comes together here, dog shit and butterflies...only it is better with poo picked up and thrown away.

    Had a Dharma Combat for a sangha member. Came up with this question:

    Dunk a donut in coffee
    Take a bite
    Dunk the Moon in the Atlantic
    Who bites that?


    Response was underwhelming. Gassho to all here.
    Last edited by Ed; 12-13-2012 at 02:00 PM.
    "Know that the practice of zazen is the complete path of buddha-dharma and nothing can be compared to it....it is not the practice of one or two buddhas but all the buddha ancestors practice this way."
    Dogen zenji in Bendowa






  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by catfish View Post
    ... but what exactly is the Book Of Equanimity?
    Now THAT sounds like a Koan, Charles!

    http://www.wisdompubs.org/pages/disp...ction=&image=1

    http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...y-introduction

    Gassho, J
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  13. #13
    Treeleaf Unsui rculver's Avatar
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    I assume the worst of a situation. Someone is going to screw up - I'm going to have to fix it - I can do it better - blah, blah, blah. I'm wrong.


    Shugen
    As a priest in training, please take everything I say with a pinch of salt

    Meido Shugen
    明道 修眼

  14. #14
    Question: Discuss a fault or failing in your personal life or in this world, and how you might work to make it better ... but how there is no fault to make better, and no effort ... and how that fact of "no fault and no fixing and no effort" is found right in fixing the fault and the hard effort.

    I want a recreational vehicle. I am very impulsive and am on a mission to get one. I don't need one. I know this. If I struggle with right and wrong, should or should not, etc., the effort that it takes to analyze and not to act keeps the idea of the purchase alive. Not thinking about the pink elephant in the room keeps him in the room. But, if I don't struggle, then If I get a toy, then I get a toy, and If I don't, I don't. If I didn't, I did not need it. If I did, I did. No effort. No fault. Just right.

    Gassho, JC
    Last edited by Jishin; 12-14-2012 at 02:27 AM.

  15. #15
    Hi John,

    That's exactly what I needed to read right now - thanks for this!
    (I've had to struggle with a pink elephant in the last days... decisions can be so hard and yet so easy)

    Gassho,

    Timo
    no thing needs to be added

  16. #16
    Senior Member AlanLa's Avatar
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    I love this koan. It hits me on so many levels, and I haven’t even read Jundo’s take on it yet. First of all, don’t Ungan and Dogo remind you of some Abbot and Costello routine? I got a broom right here for you. Looks like a second moon to me. Hilarious! Oh wait, there’s substance here…

    Sweeping the ground sounds like zazen, especially when you add in empty handed. But every day it’s like all this stuff that’s going on around you and in you – and you have to keep sweeping the ground of who you are. This is a self-view, but it is real and relevant; it is our Buddhist life that we monitor as a vow, as a keeper of precepts. How did I do? Metta for all my failures, and then a vow to do better.

    “To see the one who’s not hard at it we have to see penetrate through the barriers set up by Zen teachers.” Hah, take jundo and taigu and then move on! Don't get caught by treeleaf. Find your own answers within the content in, but the answers are NOT the content here.

    Absolute/relative = trap. We intellectualize the Zen crap to the point of ridiculousness. “Is it ok if I blink during zazen, jundo?” Drop it, drop the moon, too, while we’re at it; the actual moon that we are (and are not) a part of!

    All of our complaints are relative to something, thus codependent arising. Basic Zen here. What broom/moon is that you are (not) holding? Who cares? Shut up! Be silent Velcro and maybe you will find some Zen there.

    And just when I get all caught up in the hilarious Zen of Ungan and Dogo come Gensha and Ummon, who do their own version of Laurel and Hardy on me by letting me know that I am getting blinded by dust, says Gensha (Laurel). “What’s all this chattering about?” says Ummon (Hardy). And the point of all this disturbing chatter is to help us see through the dust of our lives as we, at the same time, sweep it all away.

    Like all great comedians (Ungan and Dogo, Gensha and Ummon, Laurel and Hardy, Abbot and Costello), they are like children making noise to disturb us into directly seeing if how hard we are (not) at it.

    “What you did as a youngster, now aren't you ashamed?” Hah, nowhere in Zen to begin on that one!

    OK, now I’ll read Jundo’s take and respond to that accordingly.
    AL (Jigen) in:
    Faith/Trust
    Courage/Love
    Awareness/Action!

  17. #17
    Thank you Alan,

    Gassho,
    Pontus
    In a spring outside time, flowers bloom on a withered tree;
    you ride a jade elephant backwards, chasing the winged dragon-deer;
    now as you hide far beyond innumerable peaks--
    the white moon, a cool breeze, the dawn of a fortunate day

  18. #18
    Nice, Al.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  19. #19
    Senior Member AlanLa's Avatar
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    I wrote that quite spur of the moment, and when I read it today I just cringe at all the mistakes in it. I want to go back and edit it, but if I did I would be "hard at it," wouldn't I? Just admitting this is a form of being "hard at it," I suppose. Letting it go as is now...
    AL (Jigen) in:
    Faith/Trust
    Courage/Love
    Awareness/Action!

  20. #20
    The spur of the moment shines through!
    Edit to remove the "mistakes" and you risk killing the aliveness, the spontaneity and the honesty.

    Gassho,
    Pontus
    In a spring outside time, flowers bloom on a withered tree;
    you ride a jade elephant backwards, chasing the winged dragon-deer;
    now as you hide far beyond innumerable peaks--
    the white moon, a cool breeze, the dawn of a fortunate day

  21. #21
    One key area where I struggle and perceive a fault is that I swing between two extreme opinions of myself: useful and useless. Practice has allowed me to recognize that both are not quite true, while still allowing me to do my best and be as useful as possible.. work as hard as necessary, etc.

    When I'm busy at work, I feel very useful and important and pumped up. When it's not as busy, I get a little neurotic like "oh no, nothing to do, am I useless? Will I be let go?" Part of this is absolutely the corporate culture's influence. But this practice has helped me shine a light on that crap (for lack of a better term ). At the same time, it's empowering to see this as it is because it allows me to actually get to work and not worry so much.. but admittedly the worry does creep in.

    Gassho,

    Risho

  22. #22
    I have a difficulty I've been dealing with since I was a young child. I work on it every day, in some way. It is a constant challenge. Although I like to think I am broken and can somehow one day be fixed, I know I will still be working on it when I draw my last breath. But there's nothing broken, it's all right here, all the pieces, and the struggles are just another facet. This is anything like what I was trying to say.
    Gassho, Kaishin / Matt
    Gassho,
    Kaishin

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Question: Discuss a fault or failing in your personal life or in this world, and how you might work to make it better ... but how there is no fault to make better, and no effort ... and how that fact of "no fault and no fixing and no effort" is found right in fixing the fault and the hard effort.

    Gassho, Jundo
    Something I sometimes imagine I fail at is practice. I feel I need to sit more on G+, attend more Zazenkais, sit more regularly, read those Zen books and sutras that are collecting dust in the book shelf, take Jukai, get involved in some socially engaged project. As a Zen student, in this respect, you could say I am a failure. But I have come to accept that. There is a difference between being lazy and only chasing after one's desires (I do that sometimes too! ), and taking practice seriously, but having to adapt to circumstances. I am working at making this fault better. I'm trying to say no to more and more responsibilities, aiming for a simpler life, without so much need for puzzling all the time to make things work. But never out of feeling guilt. I don't ever want practice to be a chore, something I must force myself to do, another stressor. I want to practice because it's my heart's innermost desire. I'm hard at it, trying to make room for practice, but practice itself must be effortless, freedom from being hard at it. Practice is perfect from the beginning and in no need of fixing. Life needs to be fixed constantly, or rather, life's circumstances need to be constantly adapted to. All of life can be practice, all of life can be effortless, but it doesn't always seem that way.

    So many faults, so many failings... What is there to fail at really? And how do you define what is a fault? I can't be successful in life, only dead or alive. I can't be a good human being, just a human doing the best I can, right here, right now. Success feels great, but it's an illusion. Sooner or later I will realize that all the achievements I have worked so hard for are empty. I may feel I have come far, but in reality, I didn't get anywhere at all. Money, two cars and a house didn't give me more security, just more worries and more stress. When I look back I see that just enough to put food on the table and save a little for special occasions and unexpected expenses was enough. The high status job and long education that many people only dream of achieving didn't turn out to be the free ticket to a happy life I thought it would be.

    I may feel that I messed it all up. That I am one big failure. But that's an illusion too. I may feel I have let my family down in some way, failed at something I set out to do, lost everything financially or hurt someone I love. But I can never be a failure. Only dead or alive. As long as I'm alive, I'm as successful at life as I could ever be. No matter how far I think I have fallen, I didn't fall anywhere at all, can never fall anywhere at all. I am always right here, right now. Always fresh and new. Always Buddha. In the future, all possibilities are open. The past is in the past, not real. It doesn't exist and holds no power over me, unless I let it. I try to see the real culprit behind my past hurtful actions, greed, hate and delusion. When possible, I do what I can to put things right. Learn my lessons. Then accept and forgive my past self, and set a new course for the future. Life is always starting from scratch.

    Gassho,
    Pontus
    Last edited by Omoi Otoshi; 12-18-2012 at 09:06 PM.
    In a spring outside time, flowers bloom on a withered tree;
    you ride a jade elephant backwards, chasing the winged dragon-deer;
    now as you hide far beyond innumerable peaks--
    the white moon, a cool breeze, the dawn of a fortunate day

  24. #24
    Thanks Pontus!

    Gassho,

    Risho

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Omoi Otoshi View Post
    Something I sometimes imagine I fail at is practice. I feel I need to sit more on G+, attend more Zazenkais, sit more regularly, read those Zen books and sutras that are collecting dust in the book shelf, take Jukai, get involved in some socially engaged project. As a Zen student, in this respect, you could say I am a failure. But I have come to accept that. There is a difference between being lazy and only chasing after one's desires (I do that sometimes too! ), and taking practice seriously, but having to adapt to circumstances. I am working at making this fault better. I'm trying to say no to more and more responsibilities, aiming for a simpler life, without so much need for puzzling all the time to make things work. But never out of feeling guilt. I don't ever want practice to be a chore, something I must force myself to do, another stressor.
    Sometimes Practice has to be a chore and a pain ... so that we can truly ask "where is the sensation of friction, burden, aversion to doing coming from?" (Short answer: Ultimately, from between one's own two ears. One can turn the activity resisted into a Practice of "no resistance"). Master Dogen emphasized a total practice for his monks, from waking up to cooking to eating to going to the bathroom to going to bed. Being on the cushion sitting was only one aspect of it (although when sitting, there is nothing else in need of doing in the whole universe). We learn, in undertaking many many of the things "I don't want to do" that we can drop both the "don't want" and thus the "I", leaving only the "doing".

    So, ask yourself seriously the difference between (1) can't find the time to do because life simply won't allow the time, and (2) just don't want to do because I prefer to be doing something else with the time. If someone is a doctor in a hospital such as you saving lives, or a parent who must tend to and play with the kids ... that is Practice, as much as anything a monk could undertake in a monastery. However, if someone would just rather not join a Zazenkai because they prefer to go bowling, or do not engage in a charitable activity because they prefer to watch reruns on TV ... that is not the same.

    Ultimately, this is a Practice of "no failure, and no place to fail". However, one can still fail to do things that one needs to do.

    Gassho, Jundo
    Last edited by Jundo; 12-19-2012 at 01:34 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  26. #26
    "Mind weeds" Suzuki roshi called these hesitations.
    I made a choice to walk this path. Now I go deeper into the teachings. It is difficult at times.
    I take active refuge in the Sangha. Sangha is based on Buddha and Dharma. It's in the Sangha where we grow in wisdom and compassion.
    Gassho, Jundo.
    Last edited by Ed; 12-19-2012 at 01:27 PM.
    "Know that the practice of zazen is the complete path of buddha-dharma and nothing can be compared to it....it is not the practice of one or two buddhas but all the buddha ancestors practice this way."
    Dogen zenji in Bendowa






  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    Sometimes Practice has to be a chore and a pain ... so that we can truly ask "where is the sensation of friction, burden, aversion to doing coming from?" (Short answer: Ultimately, from between one's own two ears. One can turn the activity resisted into a Practice of "no resistance"). Master Dogen emphasized a total practice for his monks, from waking up to cooking to eating to going to the bathroom to going to bed. Being on the cushion sitting was only one aspect of it (although when sitting, there is nothing else in need of doing in the whole universe). We learn, in undertaking many many of the things "I don't want to do" that we can drop both the "don't want" and thus the "I", leaving only the "doing".
    Thanks Jundo,
    That was very helpful.

    When I wrote about not wanting practice to be a chore, that was a bit of a freudian slip! The ego never likes chores. It wants to be free to satisfy its goals and desires. But you can't be a fair weather buddhist only. Some days I don't feel like practicing. I may be too tired, have a head ache or any other excuse. Going to the cushion may feel like a chore. These times I try to just do it. Don't think, just walk over to the cushion and sit down. Like diving into cold water. I like swimming, but I often hesitate to jump in, because I know it will feel cold at first. When my butt is already on the cushion, the rest is often easy. Same with making it a daily routine, just like brushing your teeth, sitting is something you do. It has nothing to do with whether you like it or not. But some days, at least for me, this doesn't work. This is when I try to take a good look at what's going on inside my head. I know that normally, sitting is natural, so why isn't it today? If I can identify the reason, I can be hard at changing the conditions and circumstances, so that Zazen mind may arrive again. Sometimes I say to myself, "OK, you don't want to practice, let's sit with that, let's watch that mind play, it might be interesting!" And the ego often agrees, because it does think watching itself is much less useless that just sitting there! Once on the cushion, Zazen usually takes over. This is where I think sticking to form is important. Once through the ritual of entering the position, the body-mind knows the drill and the ego is forgotten. Sometimes this doesn't work either. The ego is determined that sitting is useless and that there are so many important things to do. So I do one of these "important things" instead, all the while mindful of what's going on inside. That's a kind of practice too. And sometimes I just go to bed, because I'm exhausted and need to sleep! What I don't want to do is to turn practice into a battle against the ego, because that will only cement the ego in place in my experience. With a lot of will power I guess I could force myself to the cushion most days. I know I have the will power to silence my thoughts if I wanted to. But it would be a practice of ascetism instead of letting go. Building a burden instead of putting all burdens down. Creating two moons. There is a middle way here. And I guess we all have to find it for ourselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jundo View Post
    So, ask yourself seriously the difference between (1) can't find the time to do because life simply won't allow the time, and (2) just don't want to do because I prefer to be doing something else with the time. If someone is a doctor in a hospital such as you saving lives, or a parent who must tend to and play with the kids ... that is Practice, as much as anything a monk could undertake in a monastery. However, if someone would just rather not join a Zazenkai because they prefer to go bowling, or do not engage in a charitable activity because they prefer to watch reruns on TV ... that is not the same.
    Yes, I agree completely. That was what I was trying to express in much clumsier words!

    Gassho,
    /Pontus
    Last edited by Omoi Otoshi; 12-19-2012 at 11:15 AM.
    In a spring outside time, flowers bloom on a withered tree;
    you ride a jade elephant backwards, chasing the winged dragon-deer;
    now as you hide far beyond innumerable peaks--
    the white moon, a cool breeze, the dawn of a fortunate day

  28. #28
    uhm.... I think I'm with Ummon in this case.
    _()_
    Myoku

  29. #29
    I was hard at the thought - how do I join in on a thread that is now 21 chapters through?

    Now that I've added my comment here I am in the thread as well as joined in late.

    Gassho,
    Santosh.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by santosh View Post
    I was hard at the thought - how do I join in on a thread that is now 21 chapters through?

    Now that I've added my comment here I am in the thread as well as joined in late.

    Gassho,
    Santosh.
    Well, here you are.

    Gassho, Jundo
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

  31. #31
    Senior Member Heisoku's Avatar
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    I like this koan as it illuminates a paradox I have found in most jobs I have had.
    I have a preference for working quietly and in a mindfully relaxed way. Experience has taught me that solutions appear in such focused yet silent places... From school and university studies into the various jobs I have had.
    I know that many solutions to apparent emergencies and sudden problems have arisen from this silent space. YET...this makes me appear to be lackadaisical, air-headed, incapable etc, etc by colleagues and supervisors. I don' t know why but there is a preference for loud , frantic, thinking aloud type behaviour which always claims to be present and active. Usually the solutions produced by this are shallow and temporary whilst solutions from a still silent mind have more sustainability and inclusivity. I read this somewhere.
    I used to get annoyed at having my ideas passed over but in the fullness of time I at last have a boss who recognises that there is a validity in some of the ideas or solutions I have. However it is not that MY ideas were better but that they were not considered. The 'hard-at-it' requires an external validation i.e. to be called hard at it! Seems we are required to be or seem to be 'hard at it'.
    As someone I met once said, "if you are in a factory always carry a broom, if you are in an office always carry a clipboard or file."






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    Heisoku
    平 息

  32. #32
    Senior Member Amelia's Avatar
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    I feel the same, Heisoku. I work at a Subway and something one of my coworkers has said seems to be the norm there: "They don't want things done right, they want things done fast."

    I don't want people to take that to mean that Subway franchises cut lots of corners. We are very clean in there and we care about making sure our customers get good food. However, sometimes things are done in such a quick way without a real need, and it creates waste and neurotic behavior in the employees. Taking the time to make sure that the dishes are done correctly sometimes gets me lectured, whereas doing them super fast, which creates a huge mess and frequent changes of water makes my coworkers very happy.
    迎 Geika

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Heisoku View Post
    I like this koan as it illuminates a paradox I have found in most jobs I have had.
    I have a preference for working quietly and in a mindfully relaxed way. Experience has taught me that solutions appear in such focused yet silent places... From school and university studies into the various jobs I have had.
    I know that many solutions to apparent emergencies and sudden problems have arisen from this silent space. YET...this makes me appear to be lackadaisical, air-headed, incapable etc, etc by colleagues and supervisors. I don' t know why but there is a preference for loud , frantic, thinking aloud type behaviour which always claims to be present and active. Usually the solutions produced by this are shallow and temporary whilst solutions from a still silent mind have more sustainability and inclusivity. I read this somewhere.
    I used to get annoyed at having my ideas passed over but in the fullness of time I at last have a boss who recognises that there is a validity in some of the ideas or solutions I have. However it is not that MY ideas were better but that they were not considered. The 'hard-at-it' requires an external validation i.e. to be called hard at it! Seems we are required to be or seem to be 'hard at it'.
    As someone I met once said, "if you are in a factory always carry a broom, if you are in an office always carry a clipboard or file."
    Thanks Heisoku, I can relate very much with what you have said, I too am the same way when it comes to work. My best work comes from the silence and stillness in my work activity. Being a computer programmer I have worked in many different sectors ... but the one I found the hardest was Publication. The reason for this was most of the folks I worked with were very creative and their creativity came out in meetings, talking out load, showing slides, examples, etc ... the ideas were great, but ALL over the place. So, going back to the code, the place of quiet stillness.

    Gassho
    Michael
    真 眼

    As a trainee priest, please take any commentary by me on matters of the Dharma with a pinch of salt.

  34. #34
    Heisoku,
    same experience here, and the main reason I quit my job 12 years ago, I was just too tired of being noticed again and again while things went wrong again and again, founded my own, tiny company and not regretting a moment.
    Gassho
    Myoku

  35. #35
    Hi.

    One of my biggest faults/failings is that, after my wife, and mother to my son, left me and my son all those years ago, not have gotten her to reconnect to the family she has.
    Sure, she has him some of the time, but conversation with me, or other persons around him that is not of her family is sparse, and when she has him...

    So, what can i do?
    Nothing more than i have always done.
    Be here, do the best i can.
    Never give up.
    All the time.

    Thank you for your practice.

    Mtfbwy
    Fugen
    Treeleaf Unsui
    Blog: http://fugenblog.blogspot.com/

  36. #36
    This " Great Manisfestation " is hard at it and we are a part. To see two is delusion. Sweeping, cooking, choping... no less a part. gassho, Shogen

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