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Thread: A small 'YOU are not IT' moment.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Heisoku's Avatar
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    A small 'YOU are not IT' moment.

    ‘Mind and body drop away’. ‘Letting go.’ These kinds of phrases I have read or heard from studying this practice of zazen have sometimes left me quite confused as to what to do or which way to go. The more I thought, the more I knew that this ‘thinking’ was opposite to the essence of zazen practice (Jundo and Taigu say this in every teaching they have done and I have read or heard!!),BUT it still continues, like a little background programme you forgot was pre-installed on your computer but slows down whatever process you want to run.I guess our natural tendency to conceptualise what such phrases mean set off these mini background ‘thinking programmes’?
    Well something has happened for me as a result of all these years of sitting doing nothing, supposedly for no particular reason. I found myself this morning just feeding the chickens and watching the sunrise through some heavy looking clouds, before realising that I wasn’t actually thinking about what I couldn’t understand or was supposed to understand. In fact I was quite happy knowing that I didn’t know. Now this was not a thought realisation, but more an awareness realisation that seemed to arise with just watching the sun. I guess it is just accepting my ignorance and being happy that I am not ignorant of my ignorance as much as I had once been. It was such a simple moment, but it seemed to shut down many of those mini background thoughts that I cannot understand why I hadn’t realised this before? But before I set off another set of background thoughts I will be happy in this small moment.

    I just felt like sharing this in gratitude for all of the posts from which I have learnt so much and to being part of Treeleaf. Thanks, in Gassho to all.
    Last edited by Heisoku; 10-21-2012 at 09:50 PM.
    Heisoku
    平 息

  2. #2
    Thank you Heisoku,
    I can relate much to the "I know I dont know and I'm ok with that", its
    a relief. And I much know the thinking programmes
    _()_
    Myoku

  3. #3
    Thank you Heisoku,

    we want sooo hard to know everything, that it is actually quite peaceful to settle into that understanding that in fact, we don't know. "The only thing I know, is that I know nothing."

    How beautiful, how beautiful

    Humbly,

    Seiryu
    Humbly,
    Seiryu

  4. #4
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest Taigu's Avatar
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    Very good sign Heisoku, we sometimes have these moments when we totally let go of the gripping action, the will to fathom and to turn our fresh life into thoughts patterns. For guys like us, tis very hard because all our life evolves around knowing and keeping an eye on everything. Now, please, don t turn this even into a knowing experience, forget about it all together. Come back to what you are simply doing. The realization of how our mind is confused is the the alpha and omega of our path.

    Gassho

    Taigu
    Last edited by Jundo; 10-21-2012 at 08:41 AM.
    Taigu, teacher at Treeleaf Sangha, was born in 1964, started Zazen early and received Shukke Tokudo in 1983 at age 18 from Rev. Mokusho Zeisler of the Deshimaru Lineage. Received Dharma Transmission from Chodo Cross in 2002. Now resides in Osaka, Japan.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Heisoku's Avatar
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    Thank you.
    Heisoku
    平 息

  6. #6
    Treeleaf Unsui/Engineer Kyonin's Avatar
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    Not knowing is liberation.

    Thank you, Heisoku.

    Gassho,

    Kyonin
    Shuso and Ango leader for September 2014.

    Please remember I am only a priest in training. I could be wrong in everything I say. Slap me if needed.

    The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one. Mr. Spock

  7. #7
    yet.. not knowing isn't anti-knowing. Knowing is relative and partial and no problem. If knowing is clung to and made the ground, then it is a problem. But if groundless not-knowing is the ground.. then knowing is fine... and doesn't touch not knowing. Not knowing in opposition to knowing, or in fear of knowing, isn't liberation, because it avoids knowing instead of getting to the root of it.

    Sorry for the wordiness. and not sure if that makes sense. Gassho, kojip.
    大山

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyonin View Post
    Not knowing is liberation.

    Thank you, Heisoku.

    Gassho,

    Kyonin
    Oh I so agree with that Kyonin!

    Gassho
    Michael
    倫道 真現

    As a trainee priest, please take any commentary by me on matters of the Dharma with a pinch of salt.

  9. #9
    Treeleaf Unsui Dosho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kojip View Post
    yet.. not knowing isn't anti-knowing. Knowing is relative and partial and no problem. If knowing is clung to and made the ground, then it is a problem. But if groundless not-knowing is the ground.. then knowing is fine... and doesn't touch not knowing. Not knowing in opposition to knowing, or in fear of knowing, isn't liberation, because it avoids knowing instead of getting to the root of it.

    Sorry for the wordiness. and not sure if that makes sense. Gassho, kojip.
    Kojip,

    It makes perfect sense and thank you for your words. I think "not knowing" can often be misunderstood as "ignorance is bliss", which we certainly wouldn't endorse around here!

    As you point out, clinging to that "knowledge" is often as big a cause a suffering than anything else.

    Gassho,
    Dosho
    Shudo Dosho - Ordained Priest-in-Training
    With your help and guidance from Jundo & Taigu
    I am learning, but please take what I say with a
    grain of salt, especially in matters of the Dharma.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Heisoku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dosho View Post
    I think "not knowing" can often be misunderstood as "ignorance is bliss",
    So true Dosho.

    I think Dogen clarifies this for me in Shobogenzo:One Bright Pearl in a commentary on Gensha's “All the universe is one bright pearl. What need is there to understand it?”when he writes;

    'Yet both you and I, not knowing what one bright pearl is and what it is not, have had a great many thoughts and non-thoughts about it which have come to form positive notions. Yet, when thanks to Gensha’s words it is made known and clarified that even our bodies and minds are one bright pearl, then the mind is not I.'

    Gassho.



    Last edited by Heisoku; 10-21-2012 at 09:48 PM.
    Heisoku
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  11. #11
    Friend of Treeleaf Daido's Avatar
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    Gassho Heisoku

    Daido.
    Jiken Daido - Unsui at Treeleaf's Brother Sangha, the Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage.

    Do not just accept what I say. Decide for yourself if it rings true for you

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Kojip View Post
    yet.. not knowing isn't anti-knowing.
    --Washu
    和 Harmony
    秀 Excellence

    "Trying to be happy by accumulating possessions is like trying to satisfy hunger by taping sandwiches all over your body" George Carlin Roshi

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