QUESTION FROM JUNDO: Moving to Buddhadharma / Shambhala Sun

Hi All,

I have something I would like to discuss with the Sangha, and get everyone's consensus and (I hope) approval.

I have had an offer to move our daily "Sit-a-long" Netcast and Blog to the website of Shambhala Sun/Buddhadharma magazines ... probably as a blog on their "Shambhala SunSpace" pages ...

http://www.shambhalasun.com/

http://www.shambhalasun.com/sunspace/

The folks at Beliefnet.com offered to renew our blog contract for another year, and they are very nice people ... but I think that Shambhala Sun/Buddhadharma might be a more appropriate soil for us. The reason is that Shambhala Sun/Buddhadharma is a non-profit organization, carrying (for the most part) serious articles and essays on Buddhist topics (especially on the Buddhadharma side). They are well respected in the wider Buddhist Sangha. Their mission statement is this ...

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Shambhala Sun Foundation

Who We Are


We are a nonprofit, independent media company dedicated to the publishing and propagating of genuine buddhadharma of all traditions.

The Shambhala Sun Foundation publishes the Shambhala Sun and Buddhadharma: The Practitioner’s Quarterly. The Foundation is an independent, not-for-profit, charitable organization in Canada, and a 501(c)3 nonprofit organization in the United States.


Our Background

Started in 1992, the Shambhala Sun has grown to become the most widely-read Buddhist-inspired magazine in North America, bringing the wisdom of contemplative spiritual practice to all the important issues in life. In 2002, in response to the growing community of long-term committed Buddhist practitioners, we launched Buddhadharma: The Practitioner’s Quarterly, an in-depth, practice-oriented journal of Buddhist teachings.

We are proud that our growth from a community newspaper (with a circulation of 3,000) to two magazines (with a combined circulation of over 100,000) has been accomplished without significant outside financial support, accumulated debt, or operating losses. We gratefully acknowledge that our success could not have been possible without the generous and passionate help of all of you—our readers and teachers, writers and artists, advertisers and friends. You have all been our partners in this journey and your contributions will continue to be critical as we embark on a new phase in our mission.

Read Editor-in-Chief Melvin McLeod’s September 2007 editorial announcing the Shambhala Sun Foundation.

Read Publisher James Gimian's March 2008 editorial discussing the myth of independence.


Our Mission

The Shambhala Sun Foundation promotes the growth and development of genuine buddhadharma as Buddhism takes root in the West. Through the publication of magazines and other media, conferences and educational forums, we will support all traditions of dharma that teach the three marks of existence and nontheism, and are based on meditation practice and cutting through spiritual materialism. In these endeavors, the Shambhala Sun Foundation will work with and support all those who share the values of wisdom, sacredness and compassion.

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Beliefnet has been lovely ... but, well, if anyone has seen some of the advertisements and such that accompany our blog now, they might have some concerns.

http://blog.beliefnet.com/treeleafzen/

So, I think the move is good.

But this is something I wish to do in a "Japanese"way of "group harmony and consensus". So, what do you think (and non-think) about the move? It would probably be from January 1st, in time for our Jukai ceremony.

Gassho, Jundo

PS - Oh, and Taigu said already he likes the idea.

PPS - A small part of me would take some joy in telling Rupert Murdock, owner of Beliefnet and FoxNews, that we are moving on. :) Of course, I do not think he is a regular reader of our blog. :)

Hi, Jundo,

I'm in favor of the move. Beliefnet is nice, but the ads and pop-ups are annoying, even if they do promote good causes. Plus, I didn't know Beliefnet was a for-profit entity owned by RM and Fox. I don't believe religion should be monetized to this extent. For this reason also, I'm in favor of the move.

Gassho,
Kevin

love the idea. seems like a better home to me.

Lovely idea. Move ahead!

Gassho, Jean

If it will operate in a similar manner, that is not be too difficult to get on or find...I'm for it. Also do they have a track record of "being up", are they reliable? Just thought I'd ask.

Gassho,

Denis

Hi.

Go for it.
I'm with you.
(like i have any choice...)
And wouldn't it be good to see some new ground?

Mtfbwy
Fugen

Great opportunity Jundo!

I used Shambhala Sun/Buddhadharma magazines as a major resource for years before I found Treeleaf. I was never completely comfortable with the move to Beliefnet, really missed the old Treeleaf site. Also found the pop up advertisements and the foot note advertisement a bit distracting for a teaching venue.

Treeleaf will still be available for those that seek it out. A move to this site will be a bit of a filter but still Treeleaf will be a treasure for those that are looking.

Jim

Hello Jundo and sangha,

I'm sorry in that I've been away from our community for a couple of months

I am in favor of the move and am appreciative of the work you do for us.

Jeff

Sounds like a "perfect fit". :D

I'm not opposed to the move at all. But I do wonder, will we gain more or less exposure to new folks with the move? Personally, I find U-streams advertisements on the videos pretty sucky. I don't much pay attention to them on Beliefnet. I know they are there. Sometimes I get caught reading them, sometimes I barely notice.

Dave _/_

Beliefnet is a nice platform but the advertisements is a bit disturbing.

On the other side, how is it going to work?
Are you going to be one of the "featured bloggers" and have a dedicated space for Treeleaf and your teachings?
or just be able to post on the main blog?

by the way ... Thanks because I didn't knew shambala sun, and it seem to be a good magazine!

gassho,

Luis

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Originally Posted by lorax

Treeleaf will still be available for those that seek it out.

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Be sure of it... when I was taking a look to shambalasun blogs, I noticed an "evil" advertisement on the side ...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_EnCyZxKDk3...skyscraper.jpg

Luis

Okay with me.

Ron

Jundo,

I'm along for the ride...toward the Sun.

Their mission that "promotes the growth and development of genuine buddhadharma as Buddhism takes root in the West" is, as others have already mentioned, fits well with Treeleaf's own to bring the Dharma "to students who cannot travel to a Zen Center."

Thanks for asking us for input.

Gassho,

James.

Not that you need my permission... :twisted: .....but ya got my vote!

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Originally Posted by lorax

Great opportunity Jundo!
...Also found the pop up advertisements and the foot note advertisement a bit distracting for a teaching venue...

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Me too!

Moving sounds like a good idea. However... I sometimes go back and look at older videos. Will the archived videos move too? Or remain on Beliefnet?

JohnH

JohnH wrote "Will the archived videos move too? Or remain on Beliefnet?"

Good point, there have been some very good teachings during the Beliefnet time. I would hope that they are the interlectual property of Treeleaf, but ???? It would be good if at least a link to those teachings coluld be put in the Treeleaf arcives. But talk about beginners mind, I know nothing as to how all this works..! Sort of like Jundo's last teaching.... "its a miracle...!"

Jim

Hi Jundo,

I say go for it...never really been comfortable with the blog at beliefnet but understood the reason for doing it. This seems to have all the upside (perhaps more) and much less of the downside.

Gassho,
Dosho

I think it's a great idea.

Gassho,
-K2

We've had some dust-ups with Tibetan Buddhism before. Will they have a problem with your rebirth agnosticism or TB criticism?

Other than that, I've got no concerns.

Chet

.

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Originally Posted by Undo

Fantastic news!!!
I will be able to watch a sit and not have to shower afterwards :D

Chet we also have dust ups with ourselves from time to time too :D

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But not the kind that end in censoring or bans..

Chet

.

A few things:

I agree in principle that Shambhala Sun is a better home, but

I haven't made it through half the videos on BeliefNet, so maybe keep the BeliefNet contract for a year, until all those videos can be archived somehow?

I don't mind the ads, I barely notice them, and if I do it's grist for the mill, providing outline and contrast for the teaching :-). All ads are distractions; ads for things that are supposedly spiritual will be harder to respond to appropriately.

On Shambhala Sun you are going to attract a much larger group, which will make the threads in this forum much more complicated. How does that feel?

If all that is okay, then let's do it. The sangha is about to get a lot bigger.

Gassho ... Scott

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Originally Posted by scott

A few things:

I agree in principle that Shambhala Sun is a better home, but

I haven't made it through half the videos on BeliefNet, so maybe keep the BeliefNet contract for a year, until all those videos can be archived somehow?

I don't mind the ads, I barely notice them, and if I do it's grist for the mill, providing outline and contrast for the teaching :-). All ads are distractions; ads for things that are supposedly spiritual will be harder to respond to appropriately.

On Shambhala Sun you are going to attract a much larger group, which will make the threads in this forum much more complicated. How does that feel?

If all that is okay, then let's do it. The sangha is about to get a lot bigger.

Gassho ... Scott

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Hi All,

Just a quick comment on a couple of the issues raised, before I head off for the Saturday "Zazenkai" ...

We are working on preserving the archives, so that is not a problem. I think they will be around.

However, feel no compulsion to "work through them all". Some, like the "Heart Sutra" series or "Instructions for the Cook" series, might be worthwhile to go through ... others pass by like fall leaves in the wind. Like all of life in that way ... ever passing ...

I actually will try to organize a better archive system in the future for any special talks, materials, posts and such.

Oh, and on the question of this leading to the Sangha and this forum getting bigger and more crowded ... I don't think so. Folks were worried about the same when we went to Beliefnet, and it did not happen. In fact, I think our Shikantaza/Soto emphasis will always appeal to only a small subset of meditators, a subset of Buddhists and even not all "Zen" Buddhists (not the Koan Zazen folks so much). So, I do not think that moving to Shambhala Sun will result in attracting too many more folks (and I will do my best to scare as many of those away as I can! :twisted: )

Of course, our "mission statement" is below ... so I want to reach out to such folks as much as possible.

Gassho, Jundo

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Treeleaf Zendo was designed specifically as an online practice place for Zen practitioners who cannot easily commute to a Zen Center due to health concerns, living in remote areas, or childcare and family needs, and seeks to provide Zazen sittings, retreats, discussion, interaction with a teacher, and all other activities of a Zen Buddhist Sangha, all fully online.

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This is a no brainer. I have respect for Shambala and disdain for Murdoch & Companies because of their imbalance of truth and money.

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Originally Posted by Jundo

However, feel no compulsion to "work through them all". Some, like the "Heart Sutra" series or "Instructions for the Cook" series, might be worthwhile to go through ... others pass by like fall leaves in the wind. Like all of life in that way ... ever passing ...

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I find them 95% wonderful, so I'm soaking up all I can get :-D, especially the beginner ones.

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Originally Posted by scott

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Originally Posted by Jundo

However, feel no compulsion to "work through them all". Some, like the "Heart Sutra" series or "Instructions for the Cook" series, might be worthwhile to go through ... others pass by like fall leaves in the wind. Like all of life in that way ... ever passing ...

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I find them 95% wonderful, so I'm soaking up all I can get :-D, especially the beginner ones.

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So, what's your complaint about the other 5%??? :roll:

(just kidding) 8)

Sounds great to me.

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Originally Posted by Jundo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scott

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Originally Posted by Jundo

However, feel no compulsion to "work through them all". Some, like the "Heart Sutra" series or "Instructions for the Cook" series, might be worthwhile to go through ... others pass by like fall leaves in the wind. Like all of life in that way ... ever passing ...

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I find them 95% wonderful, so I'm soaking up all I can get :-D, especially the beginner ones.

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So, what's your complaint about the other 5%??? :roll:

(just kidding) 8)

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:-D well, rain gear didn't lead me to feel enlightened ... but the one with the blender not only made me grin, but it shook up my mind most beneficially, and I even got to use the metaphor when talking to someone a few hours later.

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Originally Posted by Jundo

Oh, and on the question of this leading to the Sangha and this forum getting bigger and more crowded ... I don't think so. Folks were worried about the same when we went to Beliefnet, and it did not happen. In fact, I think our Shikantaza/Soto emphasis will always appeal to only a small subset of meditators, a subset of Buddhists and even not all "Zen" Buddhists (not the Koan Zazen folks so much). So, I do not think that moving to Shambhala Sun will result in attracting too many more folks (and I will do my best to scare as many of those away as I can! :twisted:

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This was definitely among my greatest concerns with the move to Beliefnet and, as Jundo says, it just didn't happen. Now, I think it's best to cast out a wide net to catch the few fish who will really benefit from our practice here at Treeleaf.

The move sounds great to me!
BrianW

Hello Jundo and all,

I'm a big fan of Shambhala Sun and believe our move there would be a good thing for us. I'm in! I am glad to hear that we won't lose the teachings from the last year...I refer back to them frequently.

I have to admit I've always been a little annoyed with the beliefnet site and the ads.

Gassho,
Kelly (Jinmei)

Jundo,

Can you speak to the issue about Tib Buddhism? Will there be conflicts there?

Chet

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Originally Posted by disastermouse

Jundo,

Can you speak to the issue about Tib Buddhism? Will there be conflicts there?

Chet

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Hi Chet,

The magazines, for the years I have been reading them, have been open to all traditions without discrimination (Zen stuff and teachers, "Insight" "Theravadan" and "Tibetan" all getting their share), liberal views and conservative, controversial views (Stephen Bachelor, etc. skeptical of literal rebirth ideas) ... they print them all, and would be certainly on the more reformist, "Western" Buddhist flavor than traditional, devotional Buddhism.

It seems that the original publication, and many in the editorial staff, are associated with the Lineage of Trungpa Rinpoche ... who was, to say the least, one of the most iconoclastic of Tibetan teachers (the phrases "Crazy Wisdom" and "Buddhist Materialism" come to mind) ... and supportive of pan-Buddhist dialogue (a long time friend of Shunryu Suzuki Roshi) etc.

I do not foresee any problem at all in continuing what we continue.

Gassho, Jundo

I think it sounds good, too. I've always thought that Shambhala Sun was a good pub. and I like the non-profit issue.

Peace,
Eika

Hi Jundo

Seems like an interesting place to move to, you made a good evaluation of pros and cons,


Gassho

Joris

Jundo,

Sounds and reads like a good offer to me.
When I found out that Murdoch bought Myspace several years back I deleted that account immediately. Had no idea he had his grimy hands in Beliefnet.

You have my vote.
Thanks for asking us.

Well, I have been absent for awhile but in case my opinion still counts I'll voice it.

I would approve of the move, just for the lack of ads, and pop ups alone, not to mention Shambhala Sun is a quality magazine with a great mission.

Change is good.

The move should be a nice change, I've become overly familiar with that site the last few months while working on a project ( shhhhh it's a secret. :wink: ) and they seem to run a tight ship, and keep things going nice and smooth, and strike me as having a great sense of community, and open sources for learning. My support is behind this one as well. :)

Shambala is good, I agree. ;)

Mujo

Hey everyone.

i think the move will not make any such difference. just like last time people were worried about moving to beliefnet and it turned out to be quite nice.

personally i think it will be alright.

Jundo if you think it would be a good idea. i trust your judgment.


Gassho, Dojin.

As devil's advocate....the Treeleaf site will probably get watered down a bit by tirekickers....as a new face here, Treeleaf feels real tight currently...that will change. Maybe is positive change...maybe not.

I say give it a try.
Its not like your signing up for a 99 year lease or anything.
If it doesn't seem like a nice fit then, there is always a different way.
In the end things always work out.

On watering down by an influx of newcomers - we were/are all tire kickers I see no harm in it. Eventually the novelty wears off or the reality sinks in (Katagiri Roshi said - dont stick your nose into zen, you might not be able to pull it out - paraphrased a bit) and we make our choices.
Perhaps these extra gusts of wind in the branches may just help shake these tenacious fall leaves enough to let go!

hehe my 5 cents :x

Gassho
Shohei

Sounds very nice.

:)

Seona

Hello!


Another two cents im support of the move. :D

Gassho,

Hans

I haven't been here much lately, but I agree. Maybe get a better video system too, so your voice is synced with your lips. :-)

Honestly, I don't watch the talks often, but I think Shambhala Sun (or Buddhadharma, which is an offshoot of SS) are a 1000% better host source than Beliefnet. I don't read Buddhist magazines as much as I used to (the articles all start to seem the same after a while) but when I do, I almost always find at least one really good piece in each. Whereas I don't really want to touch Beliefnet, even with a ten foot pole :lol:

Seriously, Shambhala Sun already has a lot of good "modern Buddhist" departments including being a new host of Rod Meade Sperry's 'Worst Horse' Buddhism and pop culture news / entertainment column. Whereas Beliefnet has, what, crystal rubbing and UFO channeling contests?

Owned by News Corp? I had no idea. That's awful. Please move.

Cheers,
Cam