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Most ways I've heard people chant the Heart Sutra in English are monotonous, and, to me, remove all of the meaning from the text. I think it can be done in a more interesting way; how about this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80loDNNRfB4
Gassho,
Kirk
(Posted from my iPhone; please excuse any typos or brevity.)
Allen Ginsberg's Jewish Cantor is coming out ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86obGIxvFxs
Gassho & Shalom, J
Indeed, but I find that it gives the text much more meaning. Is there any reason to not chant that way? My guess is that Japanese doesn't have word stress like English, is that the case?
Gassho,
Kirk
(Posted from my iPhone; please excuse any typos or brevity.)
why not indeed...
i would suggest to anybody interested to change anything in this...to give twenty or thirty years of chanting, practicing, you know, going the good old way...a go. giving it a go before suggesting a change.
and Ginsberg is a great poet and ...a f..... poor singer (it is a musician and priest talking)
gassho
T.
PS : and if you think this singing of Alan Ginsberg makes sense, you are invited to get in touch with me. And if you think Alan Ginsberg is a fraud as a poet, you are invited to get in touch with me.
Hello,
At first the atonal chant is. . ."wow, really?", THEN the atonal chanting is "sensible".
NOW the atonal chant is, wow, really.
Hypnotic, ain't it?
Gassho,
Myosha
I will say that there is a time to go deeply deeply into the old, Traditional ways ... chanting in Sino-Japanese for example ... to find the boundless depths that are in the Tradition. So, I chant so sometimes.
But there are also times to express, cut loose ... all good too. So, we had this Heart Sutra Gospel a few years ago, written by our member Eika who is a jazz musician and music educator. The bemused French folks standing around (Taigu and my Dharma Brother Jean-Marc Bazy about 4 years ago) were probably wondering if I would require CPR at some point ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbSZ...ature=youtu.be
And we have this wonderful Japanese rap we use for our Zazenkai from time to time (gee, maybe next week!). Yes, ii is the traditional wording, as in the videos below ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV6VyvAHOdg
And there is a whole series featuring robot singer (yes, she is a computer program) Hatsune Miku ...
http://vocaloid.wikia.com/wiki/Hatsune_MikuQuote:
Hatsune Miku (初音ミク) is the first Japanese Vocaloid2 in the Vocaloid2 Character Vocal Series, the third Japanese Vocaloid created by Crypton Future Media, and is the seventh Vocaloid to have appeared overall; released on August 31, 2007. She is considered as the most popular and well known Vocaloid and the first to become a pop idol. The data for the voice was created by sampling the voice of Saki Fujita (藤田 咲, Fujita Saki), a Japanese voice actress.
Crypton had the idea to release Miku as "an android diva in the near-future world where songs are lost."[3][4] When KEI illustrated Miku, he was asked to draw Miku as an android and a color scheme to go off of (based on YAMAHA synthesizer's signature blue-green color). Crypton also provided KEI her detailed concepts, however, Crypton says it was not easy to explain what a "Vocaloid" was like to him, and KEI says he could not create an image of a "singing computer" at first, as he did not even know what a "synthesizer" was. It took him more than a month. [5] The digital design on Miku's skirt and boots are based off synthesizer program colours and the bars represent the actual bars within the program, following Crypton's idea. Part of her design seems to be based on Yamaha's keyboard model DX-100 [6].
Does Hatsune Miku have Buddha Nature?
Here are some more with her ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG9XDLXg2zQ#t=15
o ... thrash metal ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwh7VM3w1xc
... and R&B (I think these are human voices mixed in) ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38sy1DN88Ks
And let me also mention our old member Will, who did a lovely Heart Sutra arrangement several years ago ... PLEASE give a listen to this. This always just carries me away when I hear ...
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=6273880
Gassho, J
Will's version is lovely. Thank you for sharing, Jundo.
In my opinion, The Heart Sutra belongs to all of us and none of us and we should chant it as we feel it in our hearts. For those of us unable to carry much of a tune, that will probably be pretty much the traditional version (or one of them!) and it is doubtless wise for members of a physical sangha to work to the same tune for the sake of harmony! However, so long as it comes from the heart, I have no problem with it being sung as plainsong, Jewish traditional forms, jazz, folk or rap.
Gassho
Andy
Ah, yes, plainsong ... the Order of Buddhist Contemplative has this version of the Heart Sutra. Basically, very much like a gregorian chant, as Kennett Roshi often borrowed forms from the Anglican Church ...
https://throssel.org.uk/wp-content/u...06greatwis.mp3
Gassho, J
Let me add one more point. We recently had a discussion with some of our Novice-Priests training here who were experimenting and putting some self expression into some of the chanting during our Zazenkai. Taigu and I told them to stop. Why? Well, when training they should go deeply into the "traditions" of how we do things around here. Perhaps if the time comes that they are off on their own sometime in the future, well, then they can do as they wish.
Gassho, J
I personally like the "monotanous" chanting and can see myself doing it for years to come. However, always enjoy something a bit different to listen to, as I often have this kind of music on when I am cooking.
Gassho,
Joyo
For me I enjoy chanting the traditional monotonous style as it allows me to connect to that tradition. =)
Gassho
Shingen
This ain't really the Heart Sutra, and it is last year's meme, but Daitetsu and Hans worked hard and it was fun ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysKRgjDvWEg
Oh yes, that was a fun zazenkai for sure .... =)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jundo
Gassho
Shingen
Kinda really like this one too ... beyond "like/dislike" of course ... (in case you will be wondering, he chants the full Sutra prose text in this, not the abbreviated chant version, so a lot more words) ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gkC3P8dkbs
Gassho, J
Woooo, like totally groovy! =)
Gassho
Shingen
OMG ... this is the best! =)
http://youtu.be/jbSZUx3Pf2g
Gassho
Shingen
Oh my, Shingen, that brings back memories of my Mennonite roots, hilarious!!!
Gassho,
Joyo
p.s.--except for Mennonites aren't quite that lively, that's too "worldly" for them :) No dancing allowed!!!
I love Will's version of the Heart Sutra, I play that during the commute from time to time.
Gassho,
Risho
Hahaha! What an awesome thread. The zazenkai videos are really fun. I do "prefer" the vintage monotone as well Shingen. A vibe of timelessness. Considered recording a music version of the Heart Sutra as well. Music will be minimalist though. Lots of nice droning synth pads, and maybe some piano. :)
Gassho, John
I don't know...
I totally love the traditional Heart Sutra and I am a long way until I truly learn and understand it. I guess I have years of practice ahead of me and I'm fine with that.
Still... I am a huge fan of Hatsune Miku and her Heart Sutra is awesome. Puts me in a good mood :)
Gassho to all humans and vocaroids in this universe,
Kyonin
Please do, and we can use it one day for our Zazenkai ceremony.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless
Gassho, Jundo
Coincidentally I have been watching a YouTube video of Thich Nhat Hanh on "letting go".
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o1Kph9R6y1E
Basically, the discussion is about attachment and "wrong view". The 5th wrong view he discusses is attachment to rules and rituals!
Watching the posted videos in this thread has kept a smile on my face! I love the creativity and wonderful sense of life and most of all a wonderful sense of humor. How flexibility within the strictures of rituals puts new life into them.
Bravo!. Thank you for this thread one and all...
Anne
Personally, hearing the traditional chanting gets me "in the mood", it is somehow calming, helping me to "phase down".
I guess there must have been a reason for the monotony of the traditional chant - it can be a bit like shikantaza...
About rules and breaking them:
While I am not really a person who loves rituals and rules (I've always been rebellious), I see a value in them.
There is a time to keep to the rules and a time to break them.
I am a passionate photographer, and in photography there are also certain rules of composition that make up a good photo.
However, sometimes you can get stunning photos by breaking those aesthetic rules - BUT: first you must know those aesthetic rules very well in order to be able to break them in an effective way!
Not learning those rules in the first place would not help.
I guess it is a bit the same in our practice as well: First we should get accustomed well with certain rules/rituals, and only then can we consider modifying them here and there (or completely).
Don't know if anyone gets my point...
Gassho,
Daitetsu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gkC3P8dkbs
I just had a nice email exchange with the composer, Gary Dyson, a Tibetan Practitioner who is a student of Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche, the movie director. Anyway, Gary said it was okay to "use the recording in any way that is beneficial. Share, play, give away, what ever. It is for the benefit of all."
http://garyazukx.bandcamp.com/track/heart-sutra
So, I will be playing the recording this Saturday, during our Zazenkai, as our Heart Sutra Recitation. Everyone, please come dance! Dance of Emptiness!
Gassho, Jundo
Awesome!
Hello,
Full Lotus and a headstand for Saturday??
You are the teacher. . .
Gassho,
Myosha
Glow sticks and baby pacifiers ... but no drugs or twerking ...
http://www.adisc.org/forum/attachmen...ngclub-010.jpghttp://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/def...?itok=-ZR2dfan
Gassho, J
Cool ... think I might paint my bald head with reflective paint! [mindblowing]Quote:
Originally Posted by Jundo
Gassho
Shingen
This is really fun everyone. I also find meaning and perhaps purpose in the traditional, I find it puts me in the "zone" too. Yet it is great to go out of the norm, if for no other reason, than to find the zone in everything.
Gassho
C