Gratitude Trust A Willingness to Yield

Hi,

We have had a couple of topics related to this recently, like one on acceptance of life ...

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1555

... and sometimes we tackle some "BIG Questions" ...

viewtopic.php?p=16840#p16840
viewtopic.php?p=17297#p17297

But I thought it worth saying again. Perhaps it is good to shout it clearly. Namely, in Buddhism, we have a strange attitude toward life and the universe ...

I would not call us "theists". And I would not call us "atheists". Yet we have a very definite gratitude, faith and confidence in this realm in which we live.

For we see and experience clearly the deep interconnection of all phenomena of this world, taste that our birth in sentient form was not but random outcome, sense a reason and direction to human life and all of creation, honor this place, express deep gratitude, trust and a willingness to allow all to be.

We are not "theists", for we do not ultimately require or cling to a particular 'god' or 'gods' to run the show. (That's not to say that we can't if we wish, and one can be a Zen Buddhist or Zennist while a Christian, Muslim, Jew or the like. We can. We neither require a "god", nor push any god away.).

We are not "atheists", as we do not see reality through nihilistic eyes, as merely cold, dead, chaotic, random and pointless, without guiding hand, system or path. (Again, one might combine Zen practice with such an outlook, but it might make one's practice something cold and dead in result).

I sometimes compare our attitude to that of innocent babes with a deep trust in this source and world that birthed us, that feeds us and which somehow allows us air to breathe. Sure, it is not a perfect place as we might always wish it to be (and certainly, if I were in charge of its making, I might choose to do things a bit differently), but it is an amazing place and a miracle that we are here. Do you know all that was involved in allowing that to be, in allowing you to be ... from the stars ... to the flowers and trees ... every twist and turn of history and natural conditions that allowed you to be?

No, as the spring time comes following the winter, and life returns ... I say that we are grateful to that which allows it all to be, and us to be. Thank you.

In dropping our sense of separate self, we trade our limited perspective (as but tiny cogs, pointlessly spinning) for a vision of the whole "Universal Machine" ... 'tis precisely us, and we are that. Amazing!! AMAZING!

Perhaps what we have is a deep faith in "god" ... but without the need or demand to know her name, her story or all that she wishes of us. We place no demands upon her, even the demand that she be a "god".

We are alive, so I expect we should live! Gee, if something or someone went to all the trouble to let that be possible, then we should just go ahead with it and live our life well

... and, though I think it unlikely, even if it all just happened for no purpose at all, we had best go ahead with it and live our life well!. In any case, live life well!

Seemingly, when we think of all the endless crossroads at which history might have gone otherwise ... all that was necessary for our lives to be here and now ... we should not be here. Yet here we are ... leading to the conclusion that we should be here. And whatever brought us here, we trust. Thank you.

We express a willingness to yield, to allow, to embrace. We Celebrate and Sink Right In!

AMAZING! Shout it from the Rooftops!

Endless deep bows of gratitude.

.

Gassho Jundo

Will

I needed that reminder today, Thank you Jundo.

Gassho,
Alex

Thank you, Jundo.

Gassho


Taigu

:D

Deep Bows
Shohei (had a thought in this vein as i drove for 300 kms to be with the fam)

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We are not "theists", for we do not ultimately require or cling to a particular 'god' or 'gods' to run the show. (That's not to say that we can't if we wish, and one can be a Zen Buddhist or Zennist while a Christian, Muslim, Jew or the like. We can. We neither require a "god", nor push any god away.).

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Coming from a Christian background (though not a very accomplished upbringing) and having left it behind for various reasons, I find it very difficult to not push the idea of the Christian God away. This has been the 'bone in my throat' for months... I am not a Christian, and consider myself agnostic. I gave Christianity every possible opportunity to live up to what it promised, and it failed. So. Am I now supposed to embrace Christianity as one of the world religions that deserves all the respect of every other religion? I think that's what I'm supposed to do, but I don't have it in me right now. If I had been raised in some other culture, and read about Christians in a book, that would be different. Coming from it, though, has colored it ugly for me.

A deep bow of gratitude Jundo. Gassho Kent

Thank you Jundo.

Hello all,

Just what I needed to read and see after a rather odd weekend. Thank you Jundo!

Gassho to all,

Kelly (Jinmei)

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Originally Posted by Tobiah

...having left it behind for various reasons, I find it very difficult to not push the idea of the Christian God away. This has been the 'bone in my throat' for months... I am not a Christian, and consider myself agnostic. I gave Christianity every possible opportunity to live up to what it promised, and it failed. So. Am I now supposed to embrace Christianity as one of the world religions that deserves all the respect of every other religion? I think that's what I'm supposed to do, but I don't have it in me right now. If I had been raised in some other culture, and read about Christians in a book, that would be different. Coming from it, though, has colored it ugly for me.

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You are not alone my friend.

I too left the religion I was raised in, as well as generations of my family before me. I am having a hard time letting go of my negative attachments and anger for lots of things that don't need to be discussed here. My wife and I left our church, which was not part of mainstream Christianity (LDS) according to most and my wife has begun attending a Bible study group with a local Non-Denom Christian church. I go with her to the study group out of support and in wanting to keep harmony in my home and marriage, though I find it increasingly difficult to stomach. It just doesn't sit with me well...but I know the issue is mine, not theirs, so I suppose this is most definitely part of my practice.

I do however want to thank Jundo for sharing this wonderful lesson and reminder. I too needed to hear it.

Hi,

We all have reason to be thankful. We can offer thanks to our families, our loved ones, our friends, our fellow Sangha members, our colleagues, even strangers and those who we may at times consider to be our enemies - for no one remains our enemy forever. We can offer thanks to the Buddhas and ancestors of the past, present and future - in whatever form they may manifest themselves - for they have instilled in us the thought of awakening. We can thank the sun, the moon and the stars for giving us the impetus to inquire. We can thank the stones, pebbles, tiles and fences, for we cannot exist without them any more than they can exist without us. And of course, we can thank ourselves for our ongoing practice, which provides us with the drive to do better than we have thus far and for our ongoing realization, which encompasses the recognition of what we are. Thank you.

Part of recognizing what we are includes the understanding that, in striving to 'see' things as they are, we also 'create' things as they are. Our understanding shapes the reality which we see. If we look for a deity or a divine purpose, whether named or unnamed, we will surely 'see' one everywhere and in every thing. However, as Zen Buddhists, recognizing that 'seeing' cannot be separated from 'creating' allows us not only to see, but also to see through. Just as we see through water by understanding that water in the ocean can be seen as a palace, a string of pearls, a pool of blood (Genjo Koan), we see through deities and divine purposes. Whether they be mere idealizations or speculations which exist solely in our thoughts, or whether they extend further into some unknown realm beyond that of our conceptualization, they too are ultimately non-substantial and impermanent. If they are not to be obstacles on our path, which we live out - for better or worse - in none other than this time and this place, we must understand this. We mustn't stop there.

Gassho
Bansho

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Originally Posted by ScottyDoo

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Originally Posted by Tobiah

...having left it behind for various reasons, I find it very difficult to not push the idea of the Christian God away. This has been the 'bone in my throat' for months... I am not a Christian, and consider myself agnostic. I gave Christianity every possible opportunity to live up to what it promised, and it failed. So. Am I now supposed to embrace Christianity as one of the world religions that deserves all the respect of every other religion? I think that's what I'm supposed to do, but I don't have it in me right now. If I had been raised in some other culture, and read about Christians in a book, that would be different. Coming from it, though, has colored it ugly for me.

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I started a separate thread related to this:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1582

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Hi,

We all have reason.... We mustn't stop there.

Gassho
Bansho

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Wham, Bam and thankyou ma'am/mister.

Bansho. You live in Germany right? Did you always live there? I think my colloquialisms might not be understood.

W

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Originally Posted by ScottyDoo

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Originally Posted by Tobiah

...having left it behind for various reasons, I find it very difficult to not push the idea of the Christian God away. This has been the 'bone in my throat' for months... I am not a Christian, and consider myself agnostic. I gave Christianity every possible opportunity to live up to what it promised, and it failed. So. Am I now supposed to embrace Christianity as one of the world religions that deserves all the respect of every other religion? I think that's what I'm supposed to do, but I don't have it in me right now. If I had been raised in some other culture, and read about Christians in a book, that would be different. Coming from it, though, has colored it ugly for me.

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You are not alone my friend.

I too left the religion I was raised in, as well as generations of my family before me. I am having a hard time letting go of my negative attachments and anger for lots of things that don't need to be discussed here. My wife and I left our church, which was not part of mainstream Christianity (LDS) according to most and my wife has begun attending a Bible study group with a local Non-Denom Christian church. I go with her to the study group out of support and in wanting to keep harmony in my home and marriage, though I find it increasingly difficult to stomach. It just doesn't sit with me well...but I know the issue is mine, not theirs, so I suppose this is most definitely part of my practice.

I do however want to thank Jundo for sharing this wonderful lesson and reminder. I too needed to hear it.

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I'm coming from an LDS background, too, and I'm also finding it difficult to handle. I was raised Roman Catholic and joined the LDS church only six years ago, and have been through several phases of gung-ho; ho-gung (inactive); active again, but not gung-ho; and now drifting toward inactivity again. Though I strongly disapprove of the attitudes and prejudices of many members of the church, I've also met many members who share my views on some of the more controversial issues. However, I do have some problems with more fundamental issues of doctrine related to the whole theological story of how things came to be (it would be a long discussion to get into all of that). However, I struggle with many things:

1. LDS theology, like much of Christian theology (and other faiths), is so punitive and fear-based in many ways that it's hard to shake the fire and brimstone feelings sometimes;
2. Having joined the church at age 30, I feel a little silly wavering only six years later (for the second time)
3. Living, as I do, in Salt Lake City, I feel eyes on me everywhere I go. Some of this may be my imagination, but a frightening percentage of it really is not. When I stand on my porch with a cup of tea (which is prohibited in the LDS faith), I feel guilty.

However, a lot of this is simply within my own mind. For those things not within my own mind, my reactions are still within my control. While I disagree with the tactics and close-mindedness of many active LDS practitioners I've met, I do believe they are well-intentioned, and I try to keep that in mind. I also try to be compassionate toward myself as I seek with good intentions for Truth. There are many aspects of LDS doctrine I like, though I tend to interpret the scriptures differently than most I've known in the church.

I'm rambling now, so I'll stop. But, this is an issue that I grapple with often, and must face every Sunday, every time I'm (still) called for my home teaching report, every time I have to teach a class (an interesting task for me currently), etc. I don't want to find yet another thing to stoke my anger, so I'm trying to remain yielding and compassionate toward all my LDS friends and neighbors.

Gassho,
Kevin

Hi Will,

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Originally Posted by will

Wham, Bam and thankyou ma'am/mister.

Bansho. You live in Germany right? Did you always live there? I think my colloquialisms might not be understood.

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Roger dodger - I read you loud and clear. :D

Yes, I moved to Germany about 13 years ago, but I grew up in the good ole USA. I can still vaguely remember one or two colloquialisms. :wink:

Gassho
Bansho

Hi.

_/_

Mtfbwy
Tb

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Originally Posted by Tobiah

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We are not "theists", for we do not ultimately require or cling to a particular 'god' or 'gods' to run the show. (That's not to say that we can't if we wish, and one can be a Zen Buddhist or Zennist while a Christian, Muslim, Jew or the like. We can. We neither require a "god", nor push any god away.).

---

Coming from a Christian background (though not a very accomplished upbringing) and having left it behind for various reasons, I find it very difficult to not push the idea of the Christian God away. This has been the 'bone in my throat' for months... I am not a Christian, and consider myself agnostic. I gave Christianity every possible opportunity to live up to what it promised, and it failed. So. Am I now supposed to embrace Christianity as one of the world religions that deserves all the respect of every other religion? I think that's what I'm supposed to do, but I don't have it in me right now. If I had been raised in some other culture, and read about Christians in a book, that would be different. Coming from it, though, has colored it ugly for me.

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I have a lot of similar ideas about Christianity, Christians, and a lot of other things. As I've been noticing my commentary on these things, I've also been noticing how absolutely unnecessary these little commentaries are.

Chet

took me a while to answer but...

thank you jundo for this post. it rings true.

as for other religions.
i am from jewish, i wasnt raised in a relgious home and no one in my close family is very religious
my girlfriend to keep the kashrut laws and some of the religious guidelines, but she isnt very religious herself.
it does bother her a bit that i am a buddhist, she considers me a sort of heretic... but she accepts it and tries to accomodate me.
just as i try to do the same for her and try to help her maintain her path.

so i think it is possible to live in peace and union.

my favorite singer, Leonard Cohen is jewsih and also a zen buddhist and he combines the 2 perfectly so i guess it is also possible to be both.

Gassho, Dojin.

Thanks to Jundo for the initial post and thanks to Bansho for his post.