Strange occurrences in my house
First of all, thank you all for having me at this site. There have been strange things happening in my house and it seems that my meditation is the catalyst for said occurrences. I've ruled out the possibility of it just being me seeing this phenomena. Me as well as the other people that live here have witnessed, strange energies that dash by, a weird fog and bright white orbs. I don't like to assume things but i have an assumption that i might possibly be manifesting these things, unintentionally of course but i'd like an expert opinion. In periods where i get lazy and don't focus on my meditation, this phenomena doesn't happen. Thank you.
Gassho, Chris
Re: Strange occurrences in my house
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Originally Posted by Chris_Tomlinson
First of all, thank you all for having me at this site. There have been strange things happening in my house and it seems that my meditation is the catalyst for said occurrences. I've ruled out the possibility of it just being me seeing this phenomena. Me as well as the other people that live here have witnessed, strange energies that dash by, a weird fog and bright white orbs. I don't like to assume things but i have an assumption that i might possibly be manifesting these things, unintentionally of course but i'd like an expert opinion. In periods where i get lazy and don't focus on my meditation, this phenomena doesn't happen. Thank you.
Gassho, Chris
Hi Chris,
Well, I do not see that Zazen would be responsible for such phenomena, any more than Zazen would influence whether the weather tomorrow is snow or rain. (Of course, if it snows tomorrow in the hot hot Japanese summer, I will change my opinion! :shock: ).
Usually, in Zen Practice, we have to be careful of certain games the mind will play during Zazen. For example, once on the fourth day of a long and hard Sesshin, I saw a little Buddha pop out of the wall, wave to me, ask me how I was doing. We chatted mentally for several minutes, enough for me to "pinch myself", then he popped back in the wall. It is common during Sesshin, because of the strains involved, to experience such things as emotional swings, hearing becoming so sharp you can be disturbed by an ant walking across the room, strange bodily sensations such as feelings of floating or being giant sized, and paranoia. But they are usually discounted as "Makyo", defined as follows (by Daido Loori Roshi):
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In Zen, hallucinations are called makyo. It is not unusual for practitioners sitting in meditation for long periods of time to experience makyo. Some people feel like they are levitating, others see visions of the Buddha bathed in light, some hear sounds or voices. This in itself is not a problem. The problem arises when we confuse these experiences with enlightenment. When students come to me in dokusan to give me elaborate description of their makyo, a common response from me could be something like, “Oh, don’t worry about it—it will go away. Maybe you’re not sitting straight.” In other words, don’t attach to it. But if a dream is real, why isn’t makyo real? Are dreams, makyo, enlightenment and delusion the same, or are they different?
In centuries past, Zen Masters used to see and hear things all the time. For example, Keizan was pretty much into things like that. Please read a couple of pages, from Page 91:
http://books.google.com/books?id=BnLOFw ... &ct=result
But, you know, that is how people thought back in the 13th and 14th century, and Keizan was particularly just that kind of person even before he started Zen practice. Heck, there are even folks now into things like that all through the Buddhist world, the Christian World, the New Age World, the world in general.
For me, I am a big big Skeptic, although I like to think that I am an open minded one. However, I tend to think that there must be some other "rational explanation" for what you are experiencing other then the spirits. For example, I am a big supporter of these organizations:
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.skepticalanalysis.com/
http://www.randi.org/jr/
Again, I don't completely discount such things. But I am pretty sure that Zen Practice would have no true causal relationship even so.
Gassho, Jundo (the "Skepto-Pragma-Mystic")
Re: Strange occurrences in my house
Thank you for your reply Teacher. Whatever it may be i will just continue with my practice. I've experienced makyo before and it is very strange, i've learned to ignore it though. It's just a trick of the mind after all. It could be makyo or something else but if i keep dwelling on it, then it'll just drive me insane. Thanks again for replying and have a great day.
Gassho, Chris
Re: Strange occurrences in my house
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strange energies ......., a weird fog
I sometimes get this but it's usually due to overly rich food :wink:
Are you getting your usual amount of sleep? Is it enough? Sometimes the brain dreams whilst awake as it still needs to go through its processes. This will effect the eyes and can produce flashes of light or colours.
I am terrible with quotes, I can never remember a name and exactly what was said, but the "Don't always believe what you think" is a good one.
Re: Strange occurrences in my house
Thanks Plankton. Yeah i get a good 7 to 8 hours of sleep. :D
Gassho, Chris
Re: Strange occurrences in my house
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_Tomlinson
Thank you for your reply Teacher. Whatever it may be i will just continue with my practice. I've experienced makyo before and it is very strange, i've learned to ignore it though. It's just a trick of the mind after all. It could be makyo or something else but if i keep dwelling on it, then it'll just drive me insane. Thanks again for replying and have a great day.
Well. Don't get to that point. Aside from what has been recommended, if it becomes stressful, do get counseling. It's not usual for some folks to get too stressed about their zazen practice. Right now I am reading "Crooked Cucumber" and I am see how some folks did not balance properly their practice and had mental breakdowns. So. Don't go down that road.
Re: Strange occurrences in my house
I saw the Orb play Glastonbury quite a few years back.
Not that it helps much here :? :roll:
Re: Strange occurrences in my house
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Originally Posted by chicanobudista
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Originally Posted by Chris_Tomlinson
Thank you for your reply Teacher. Whatever it may be i will just continue with my practice. I've experienced makyo before and it is very strange, i've learned to ignore it though. It's just a trick of the mind after all. It could be makyo or something else but if i keep dwelling on it, then it'll just drive me insane. Thanks again for replying and have a great day.
Well. Don't get to that point. Aside from what has been recommended, if it becomes stressful, do get counseling. It's not usual for some folks to get too stressed about their zazen practice. Right now I am reading "Crooked Cucumber" and I am see how some folks did not balance properly their practice and had mental breakdowns. So. Don't go down that road.
Ah no. I meant that i'll let it go and not think about it anymore. Thank you for your concern though :D.
Gassho, Chris
Re: Strange occurrences in my house
Once while sitting during a three-day retreat, I heard a woodpecker outside and suddenly a design in the floor began to take on the shape of said woodpecker and began to peck to the beat of the one outside. In addition, during another retreat, my zabuton started glowing a bright purple, and I felt like I was floating. Trippy but, as Jundo alluded to, perfectly useless.
Gassho,
Keith
Re: Strange occurrences in my house
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Originally Posted by HezB
The 'orb' thing seems to have snuck into 'Buddhism' from those corny 'real-life ghost investigation' programs you see on cable TV (and we all know that cabel TV is a quality source of reality). That those shows need to clutch at such straws to justify themselves is understandable... but Buddhism?
Over on that Buddhist news site "The Buddhist Channel" there was some debate about a lot of gushing that went on about someone capturing photos of said orbs at some Buddhist bigwig's funeral.
http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php ... 82,0,0,1,0
Well, although it may be in the eye of the beholder, looking at some of the photos ... looks a bit like dirt on or imperfections in the camera lens ...
http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/signs-...ages/orbs1.jpg
http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/signs-...irculating.jpg
They also claim to have seen images of Kannon Bodhisattva in the clouds ... Hmmm. I remain skeptical. The mind sees what it wishes to see, and draws patterns among any similar shape, much like Keith's woodpecker or visions of Mother Mary in a puddle.
http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php ... 42,0,0,1,0
Gassho, Jundo
Re: Strange occurrences in my house
I've never understood the orb thing on photos as a "miracle" or beyond the physical I've taken photographs before of wife's soccer game and I get on some of my pics. How do I fix it? I clean my lenses. :|
Re: Strange occurrences in my house
This is not particularly connected to the subject matter, but it does show how the mind can draw relationships subliminally without our being aware. A friend happened to send it to me today. I understand that it may work better for native level English speakers, and even not all of them ...
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This is pretty cool. See if you can read it. I could, and that sort of worries me!! LOL.
fi yuo cna raed tihs, yuo hvae a sgtrane mnid too. Cna yuo raed tihs? Olny 55 plepoe out of 100 can.
I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be
in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a
taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt! if you can raed tihs forwrad it.
Also, a lot of visions of people seeing Jesus and Mother Mary in tree bark, wall stains and even food (like the famous grilled cheese sandwich) ...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl...0/img/laun.jpg
... are the brain's making associations out of random patterns, not unlike a child's seeing a bunny rabbit or dinosaur in the shapes of floating clouds.
http://web.tri-isys.com/egtan/hokum/pareidolia.html
Let me repeat and repeat: In our Zen practice, we find the most miraculous things of all are the most ordinary ... life itself ... when you learn to truly see that for what that is, and you for who you are ...
You want a miracle?
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When [Dogen] returned from China, he said, «I come home with empty hands; eyes are horizontal, nose is vertical.» This teaching of Dogen Zenji's is very important for us now. Many different religious traditions and spiritual teachings meet each other, cross each other. Today, as in Dogen's time, we don't need dogmatic teaching. We need real, true teaching. Zazen practice - meditation practice in the form of zazen - is not a determined religious secret or some special technique or dogmatic belief. It is just an expression of life itself.
From a Talk by Fumon Nakagawa Roshi
http://www.sotozen-net.or.jp/kokusai/sy ... /en/02.htm
Gassho, Jundo
Re: Strange occurrences in my house
The mind filling in the blanks is called matrixing. When shown a photo of random shapes, or misspelled words as above, the mind tries to place it within context. I do it all the time with my kitchen linoleum pattern- I am always seeing peoples faces in them.
My husband is part of a local paranormal investigation group and they do not even consider orbs to be paranormal. Too many variables can lead to orbs- dust in the air or on the lens, small flying insects reflecting light, or a problem with a camera. These things happen with both film and digital camera's. The first picture in Jundo's post is most likely dust motes. When the lightening flashed it caused them to almost glow when the picture was taken. Depending on where each camera was located, only one camera may have been at the proper angle to catch them. With that many people moving around, dust was certainly flying, no matter how clean the room was!
My husband will be the first to tell someone interested in the paranormal that it is just a hobby. You can not let it consume you. It is nothing more than birdwatching or golf, a part of your life but not your life. After all, if the paranormal exists it existed before he began looking for it and will continue to exist after he is gone, so why should it matter as more than just a passing entertainment?
Gassho,
Jenny
Re: Strange occurrences in my house
Re: Strange occurrences in my house
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Originally Posted by plankton
I was confused at first as to why you posted that picture. Then it dawned on me. It's interesting to see what my post has evolved into. lol. :lol:. Be well everyone.
Gassho, Chris
Re: Strange occurrences in my house
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Originally Posted by Jundo
Also, a lot of visions of people seeing Jesus and Mother Mary in tree bark, wall stains and even food (like the famous grilled cheese sandwich) ...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl...0/img/laun.jpg
... are the brain's making associations out of random patterns, not unlike a child's seeing a bunny rabbit or dinosaur in the shapes of floating clouds.
Jesus? Hmm, looks more like Jim Morrison to me. Quite obviously it's a message from the other side. 8)
Gassho
Ken
Re: Strange occurrences in my house
Hi,
I want to apologize to Chris and others here. My original intent to remain skeptical, but open minded, may have crossed over in tone to being a little sarcastic and teasing about such phenomena, which is not right.
That fact is that I am very sensitive to issues regarding Buddhism's association with the supernatural, visions, spirits, reincarnation, ESP, faith healing, fortune telling, New Age philosophies, etc. etc. because, as an "Eastern Philosophy", we are typically lumped together in peoples' minds. Our Zen Practice really should not be placed together with such ideas.
Truly, our practice of Shikantaza is founded on a philosophy that the ordinary is anything but ordinary when seen as such. This life is a miracle without need for miracles beyond it. At least, that was Master Dogen's vision (through the centuries, other teachers such as Master Keizan, in the 3rd generation after Dogen, were quite a bit into the magical and mystical beliefs common in their time ... that is how folks back then often explained a world that, now, we just a little better understand). But in my mind, such beliefs obscure the profound truths and simplicity of our ways.
Perhaps it is because I am a lawyer by training, I am skeptical of many things. While I do not believe that science has all the answers by any means, I do believe that evidence and confirmable testing are at minimum required before we assume a claim to be true. I try to remain open minded, but I am fast to explain away anything that can be explained away, especially if the natural explanation has more supporting it than the supernatural explanation. Sometimes a cloud that looks like Kannon is just a cloud, sometimes light and shadows on a camera lens are just light and shadows. And, for me, the clouds, light and shadows themselves are all the wonder we need. I am totally into the fantastic without need for fantasy.
So, at Treeleaf, I am always going to try to separate what we Practice here from anything that rings of magic and the supernatural and myth. Because we don't need that for what we are about. Our teachings are much more profound ... for we transcend all time and space, see through life and death, and leap over the universe without moving an inch.
And that's enough for me! :wink:
Gassho, Jundo
Re: Strange occurrences in my house
Right, there probably is a rational explanation for what's going on here and meditation might not have anything to do with it at all. This house is over 100 years old and the aged electrical wiring can cause all sorts of funny stuff to happen. I apologize for the silly thread.
Gassho, Chris
Re: Strange occurrences in my house
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Originally Posted by Chris_Tomlinson
Right, there probably is a rational explanation for what's going on here and meditation might not have anything to do with it at all. This house is over 100 years old and the aged electrical wiring can cause all sorts of funny stuff to happen. I apologize for the silly thread.
Gassho, Chris
In spite of progress in science, the world continues to be, for the most part, a mystery. We don't know what or where "dark matter" is, we don't know what causes certain types of cancer, we don't know if there is a God or not, we don't know if the Yeti exists (although I bet he's pretty cool), etc. So, we always live more in the realm of ignorance than earthly knowledge. My advice is to sit back and revel in the fact that you don't know what in the hell is going on around you. Accept reasonable mystery.
Gassho,
Bill
PS--I see no reason for you to apologize. If I were seeing things in my house, I'd probably ask about it too.
Re: Strange occurrences in my house
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Originally Posted by DontKnow
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Originally Posted by Chris_Tomlinson
Right, there probably is a rational explanation for what's going on here and meditation might not have anything to do with it at all. This house is over 100 years old and the aged electrical wiring can cause all sorts of funny stuff to happen. I apologize for the silly thread.
Gassho, Chris
In spite of progress in science, the world continues to be, for the most part, a mystery. We don't know what or where "dark matter" is, we don't know what causes certain types of cancer, we don't know if there is a God or not, we don't know if the Yeti exists (although I bet he's pretty cool), etc. So, we always live more in the realm of ignorance than earthly knowledge. My advice is to sit back and revel in the fact that you don't know what in the hell is going on around you. Accept reasonable mystery.
Gassho,
Bill
PS--I see no reason for you to apologize. If I were seeing things in my house, I'd probably ask about it too.
I agree, accepting this unexplained phenomena as just unexplained phenomena seems like the best course of action. It's just samsara after all. Thank you for that. :D
Gassho, Chris
Re: Strange occurrences in my house
in the old days before retirement, a lot of folks would ask me whether what they were experiencing was normal, sane, otherworldly, etc. -- in listening to their descriptions, i didn't see much that i was concerned with, but i sure saw a lot of worried people, what modern psychiatry might label "neurotic" -- you know, like you and me, and everyone else -- usually, when the worrying decreased, the person felt a lot better -- so in that sense, we create the suffering by reacting to the object of awareness with rejection, fear, closing off, whether orbs, new job, etc. -- so as long as the stuff that arises in meditation is not pushed away, i believe the suffering is minimal -- in fact, this was the subject of my favorite little book, "the lazy man's guide to enlightenment", by thaddeus golas -- this was a "trip" guide for those, like thaddeus, who were too lazy to sit zazen -- the key phrase:"no resistance"
i'm perfectly willing to accept the existence of the described phenomena -- why not? -- but that's not the real issue -- it's only when you start to attempt to deny the experience, avoid it, hold on to it, i.e., any variations of attachment, that the real suffering starts -- instead, it is such a beautiful thing to see that no matter what it is, it arises, and it passes, if you let it -- my way of letting it is zazen
gassho, bob
