why do they get so upset?

Hi.

One thing being in forums like this is noticing how people get rallied up about things.
Some of these topics include Buddhanature, emptiness, enlightenment and nirvana.
currently there's a thread on another forum running wild, going from one "simple question"- how is buddhanature connected to emptiness?- going from 1 page to 9 in just a few days, with people throwing qoutes, names and maybe soon the kitchen sink...

But my question really is, why do they get so rallied up about it?
is it just "our nature to defend our stance" for some reason, or something more?
If so, what?

Any thoughts in the matter?

Mtfbwy
Fugen

Attachment....to pride, ego, knowledge, attitude, ignorance.... :?


Gassho,

Kyrill-Seishin

I agree. Attachment to all that stuff and to thinking itself. It's a thinking disease. You can make up any answer you like intellectually but in the present moment there are no answers. Just action. How is buddhanature connected to emptiness? Don't know is enough. But a good teacher could probably explain it in a way that might be helpful to someone. So teaching words can be useful and helpful.
/Rich

You know, sometimes the path is so difficult! :!:
So many hours of meditation, so many readings and teachings, retreats, ... all this to try to understand something... 'till the point you get a view of "how things work". This view is of course shaped by your teacher, the tradition you practice in...
And when everything is finally a bit stable, when you think you understand, you know ... guess what... POW! Everyone is not TOTALLY OK with your point of view... emptiness, buddha-nature, ... each one follows his own path, each one practices hard and has "his" own understanding... the only problem is when people began to believe they've found THE right point of view...
After what people lived as "so many difficulties", it is not easy to accept all that. Some people just forget "all the difficulties" is just the path!

But, come on... don't think I'm out of the case, when I say "people" I'm of course also thinking about me!
All of us, we have sometimes the tendencies to think that WE know, WE experienced a lot, WE..., WE, ...

I'm sure you know what I mean! :wink:

We MUST all be very careful to keep things simple as Jundo and Taigu try to teach us. But, well, of course we will sometimes fail... that just our human nature :)

Anyway, thank you Fugen to give the opportunity to share about all this!(and for all the rest of your presence here!)

Deep Gassho,
Luis/Jinyu

Hi Fugen,

Check the latest vid about the Oxherdind pictures. At least it is my take on this. Funny we both raised the issue at the same time.

gassho


Taigu

Note from Jundo: Here is the link

http://www.shambhalasun.com/sunspace/?p=15304

Perhaps it starts out with good intention, but there is not necessarily a right or wrong way to talk about Buddhism. Buddhism is Buddhism. But in the frame of misunderstanding , people speak and show. Watch your ego. That's about it. It will run away on this topic or that, but watch your ego. Be careful.

B/W

Fugen, I feel the same way about this forum sometimes. Speaking strictly for myself, when I get carried away like that (1) I have to recognize I am carried away, (2) remind myself that this too shall pass - impermanence, (3) study myself to see what delusion it is that let me get so carried away, (4) at some point let it go, whether I figure out step 3 or not. But it is not a neat and clear 1 thru 4 sequence at all; it's a struggle :? :shock: :twisted:

To more directly answer your question, I think Luis got it right. I would only add that I get carried away by delusion, step 3.

Hellos to posters here!
My two cents, and worth every penny: people don't 'get upset,' they are already upset before they even log on and go to the internet forum, the grocery store, the local bar...
The upsetness, which is already there, is looking for a place to 'ground' like lightning to a lightning rod.

Notice when in a balanced state, things don't bother you. Notice when 'in love' not only do things not bother you, but everything is quite wonderful!

If people need to be dis-charged of this kind of energy, and they don't watch professional sports as a way to be cleansed of it, another safe, acceptable way is to vehemently argue about things no one can prove exist.
Sure beats kicking the dog or beating up on the spouse

There's always zazen of course, but it is not half as much fun and it can be boring, as many have indicated.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Taigu

Hi Fugen,

Check the latest vid about the Oxherdind pictures. At least it is my take on this. Funny we both raised the issue at the same time.

gassho


Taigu

Note from Jundo: Here is the link

http://www.shambhalasun.com/sunspace/?p=15304

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Hi.

Yes, and i agree with you in what you're saying.
I've been in forums for a while and some people are just troublemakers of sorts.
Imposing their view of things on others,often not in a gentle way.
In being a viewer i feel grateful for their teachings, so i get to see/experience/be reminded what not to do...

And in the passing, the opposite is equally true, people getting obsessed by reading forums/blogs/so forth..

Mtfbwy
Fugen

Milhouse: Why don't we put it on the internet?

Bart: No, we need to reach people whose opinions really matter

Hello Leafers
Each of us has the power to remain silent. When we speak we have the power to choose words as though they were precious gems. If we are asked a specific question we can answer with sincerity and honesty. Buddhism teaches how to live a balanced life and one full of joy. Within us all is the power of choice of action. Isn't our choice of actions all that matters when "they" get upset? Give others there say and truly listen to there words. Listening is becoming a dying art in our society and so is letting.
Gassho Shogen

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fugen

Hi.

One thing being in forums like this is noticing how people get rallied up about things.
Some of these topics include Buddhanature, emptiness, enlightenment and nirvana.
currently there's a thread on another forum running wild, going from one "simple question"- how is buddhanature connected to emptiness?- going from 1 page to 9 in just a few days, with people throwing qoutes, names and maybe soon the kitchen sink...

But my question really is, why do they get so rallied up about it?
is it just "our nature to defend our stance" for some reason, or something more?
If so, what?

Any thoughts in the matter?

Mtfbwy
Fugen

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The only important question is 'Why do I get so upset.' Other people will take care of themselves.

Chet

Yes, ego gets involved, gets people to stop listening, as Zak said, and start thinking I got it, as Taigu points out in his talk. But especially paramount in that statement is the "I" part, that ego. But then again, for me these days everything seems to be boiling down to ego, so maybe I don't got it at all.

"people getting obsessed by reading forums/blogs/so forth.."

This is true. It can turn into a crutch.

And mostly it's just people spouting their opinions about things. It can get very tiring.

B/W

Hi all. IMHO ... I suspect that if you took any kind of people (farmers, machinists, teachers, Buddhists, Christians) and selected the ones who were inclined to spend a lot of time in Internet-based forums, you would get this kind of mix. It's not Buddhists in general -- well, maybe it is -- but it's people who like forums and also happen to be Buddhist. Maybe?

Scott

We are human.

Look at how riled up I got about the 'Women only' thread. Craziness, really. I am opposed to the idea, yes - but I went a little over the top.

Religion is very important to people - to many people, especially transmitted teachers, it is the most important thing. It's one of the weird things about Zen practice - how to go about it without forming an identity around it. Very difficult - maybe impossible! And where that identity becomes dented or threatened, well, then the sharp knives come out. We shouldn't be surprised that it happens, only surprised that it doesn't happen more often.

Chet