Ken Wilber on trans-rationalism etc

Interesting article from the somewhat controversial figure behind the Integral Institute and I believe also involved in Genpo Roshi's Big Mind process?

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2008/0 ... newsletter

Hi Skye,

I do not have time to discuss that article in detail right now (bedtime!).

However, I have had particularly mixed feelings about Mr. Wilber since seeing this video of him, purportedly, "stopping his brainwaves" on a portable EEG machine. To make a long story short, an electrical engineer friend of mine says it is an easy effect to fake. A brain researcher I know says there is some double-talk in his explanation. Finally, he refuses to recreate the experiment under controlled conditions.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... DcBg&hl=en

I know of no confirmed brain research on any meditators in any tradition or religion where "brain waves have stopped". Brain waves change but, unless you are dead and ready for organ donation, they do not go flat.

I can go into more detail sometime perhaps, but I consider him a brilliant mind, and an often original thinker and gifted presenter, who is also something of a snake oil salesman who fills pages of his books with both wonderful insights and a lot of claptrap. He has been the subject of discussion on other threads of the Forum from long ago, if you search those.

I better not say more, and just head to bed.

Gassho, Jundo

I have reservations too about some of his conclusions, but I think some of it is helpful too, especially the explicit distinction beween pre-rational and trans-rational states. I haven't really read enough of his work to form an opinion.

That EEG video is pretty cheesy :(

However, I always have a respect for seekers that are willing to go out there, make mistakes and hopefully discover something useful.

I can see how his speaking style and loaded terminology would rub people the wrong way. Plus he's very much in the Western A -> B -> C -> D attainment and developmental framework.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wX_W1BB_0M[/video]]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wX_W1BB_0M

Personally, I much prefer Dogen's poetic approach. But I think it's interesting to see where other people's paths are going, for better or worse.

Skye

Bringing the topic back to life at least for a moment :)

I appreciate the Integral Approch and its application in business, economics, fitness, art... Only read one of Ken's books so far but check in at the Integral Naked from time to time and listen to some of their programs. It took me a while to get acquainted withe the model but once I did I found it very helpful in many respects.

As to Ken's emphasis on the difference between pre-rational (in the mythic and magic approaches) and trans-rational (in the contemplative approach) and how they often get confused, I found this interview with Ken about this among other things:

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2008/0 ... index.html

Gassho,

Irina