IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

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Hello. This is our forum where we held discussions in preparation for our recent (January) annual Treeleaf Sangha JUKAI (Undertaking the Precepts) CEREMONY. This Forum also includes a discussion thread and instruction films on Rakusu Sewing by Rev. Taigu Turlur, for which we thank him very much. Although this Jukai is now completed, PREPARATIONS FOR OUR NEXT JUKAI WILL BEGIN IN THE FALL of 2010. Gassho - Jundo
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IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Jundo on Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:16 am

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(A LONG POST) ...


THE TIME FOR TREELEAF SANGHA’S FIRST-SECOND “JUKAI” HAS ARRIVED!

Before I discuss what "Jukai" is ... a note on a book we will be using for it, which should be purchased by those interested ...

For our upcoming Jukai (Undertaking the Precepts) Ceremony, I will again use Robert Aitken Roshi's, THE MIND OF CLOVER. It is a beautiful examination of the Precepts and Buddhist ethics.

http://www.amazon.com/Mind-Clover-Essay ... 059&sr=8-1

As last time, I will supplement that with various short readings from other teachers, available online ...

Even folks not participating in the Jukai will be more than welcome to join in the reading and discussion of the book. As well, our regular "Book Club" will continue simultaneously with "Shobogenzo-Zuimonki" for those who wish to read and discuss that.

And as Precepts study is vital for all Buddhists, whether or not you are preparing for the Jukai ceremony or already undertook it last time ... it is good to review it again! So, everyone in the Sangha should really join in this one, I believe.

What's more: Can folks who have already undertaken Jukai undertake Jukai again! YES! (And in such case, if you already have sewn a Rakusu with us last year, you will not need to sew one this time ... up to you if you wish to do so, although lovely to sew again) We will again have our 2 day "Rohatsu Retreat" in December ... and...

PLEASE NOTE THAT I ALSO INTEND TO COMBINE THIS YEAR'S JUKAI PRESENTATION WITH A CONCENTRATED 100 DAY SPECIAL PRACTICE PERIOD ... DETAILS TO COME ...

Actual study and sewing for the Jukai will begin in early to mid September ... so please sit with the following until then, and consider if you wish to walk this path ... :D

Gassho, Jundo

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JUKAI:

I have heard many whispers and comments from folks these past weeks and months on just what “Jukai” means. So, I thought I would explain my (Jundo’s) personal view of “Jukai” at Treeleaf Sangha. As well, over the weeks of our preparation, I will present many writings and talks by other Buddhist teachers expressing how each views the meaning of “Jukai” and all which accompanies that, for a single truth can be expressed in many ways and seen through many eyes.

However, ultimately, the real significance of “Jukai” will be that which each recipient finds for herself, something I am sure will develop and change as we go through the process. For that reason, some folks may wish to join in our preparatory studies and work (such as Precepts Study and Rakusu sewing), but only decide later if they wish the ceremony.

That is fine with me.

In fact, I hope that even those folks who decide not to pursue Jukai this time will still join in our Precepts Study classes nonetheless, as the Precepts are as vital to our Practice as Zazen. Truly, given their importance, I want to come as close as I ever do around here to making the Precepts course “mandatory” for Sangha members. They are central to our Practice. In fact, as Master Dogen taught in the chapter of Shobogenzo entitled “Jukai” (which we will read as part of our preparations), the Precepts are Zazen. He said …

Unless we accept the Precepts, we are not yet a disciple of the Buddhas, nor are we an offspring of our Ancestral Masters, because they have considered one’s departing from error and resisting wrong to be synonymous with practicing meditation and inquiring of the Way. The words, “They have made the Precepts foremost” are already what the Treasure House of the Eye of the True Teaching is.


So, what is the meaning of “Jukai”?

Let me offer several descriptions …

According to the “Buddhist Dictionary”, Jukai literally means “to receive” or “to undertake the Precepts”. It is the ceremony both of one’s formally committing to the Buddhist Sangha and to the Practice of Zen Buddhism, and of one’s undertaking the “Sixteen Mahayana Bodhisattva Precepts” as guidelines for life. Traditionally for Jukai, one receives from a teacher the “Rakusu”, which represents the robe of the Buddha, the “Kechimyaku”, a written lineage chart connecting the recipient to the Buddhas and Ancestors of the past, and a “Dharma Name” selected by the teacher and representing qualities of the recipient’s personality and practice (unless one already has a Dharma Name from a previous Jukai that one wishes to keep).

My teacher, Nishijima Roshi, has written that one may receive Jukai at any time, including at the very start of one’s Buddhist Path …

When a Buddhist seeks to commence upon the study of Buddhism, there is first a ceremony which should be undertaken: It is called ‘Jukai,’ the "Receipt of the Precepts”, the ceremony in which one receives and undertakes the Precepts as a disciple of the Buddha. … Master Dogen specifically left us a chapter entitled ‘Jukai,’ in which it is strongly emphasized that, when the Buddhist believer first sets out to commence Buddhist practice ….. be it monk, be it lay person, no matter ….. the initial needed steps include the holding of the ceremony of Jukai and the undertaking of the Precepts …

Nishijima Roshi also offers this description of the Precepts …

The rationale of all of the Buddhist Precepts, the Mahayana Boddhisattva Precepts …… is as a pointing toward the best ways for us to live in this life, in this real world…. how to live benefiting both ourselves and others as best we can.

Daido Loori Roshi of Zen Mountain Monastery has described “Jukai” this way:

The Buddhist Precepts are one of the most vital areas of practice for students… In essence, the Precepts are a definition of the life of a Buddha, of how a Buddha functions in the world. They are how enlightened beings live their lives, relate to other human beings and this planet, and make moral and ethical decisions while manifesting wisdom and compassion in everyday life.

The Soto Sect’s “Shumucho” (Religious Affairs Office in Japan) reminds us …

[T]hough people approach it with different motivations, all participants must realize that in Jukai-e they inherit the life and quintessence of Buddhism as passed down correctly by generation after generation of Ancestors since the days of ancient India.

Taiun Michael Ellison says:

[We] hold the Jukai or lay Zen Buddhist initiation ceremony for those wishing to receive (ju) the precepts (kai or sila) and formally confirm entering the Buddhist path. This is an important and powerful event in the life of a practitioner and in the life of the Sangha. This ceremony, historically known as “entering the stream,” has been performed continually since the time of the Buddha. In the Soto Zen tradition, the ceremony continues to be offered exactly as set down by Master Dogen in his text Kyojukaimon (Instructions on Giving the Precepts) more than 800 years ago.

[It] is available to anyone who has been practicing steadily for several months and who wishes to deepen and formalize their commitment to practice and to the Sangha. So the ceremony is at once both a beginning and a confirmation of something that has already occurred.

John Tarrant Roshi offers this perspective …

Every year around the beginning of winter we do the ceremony of Jukai in the Sangha. It is the primary initiation ceremony of Zen. … In Jukai you receive the Rakusu, which represents the robe of the Buddha, and your connection to all in the ancient lineage of people who have walked the Way and suffered for wisdom and also gained wisdom. You share in their light and their effort. You take on a Buddhist name, identifying yourself in the tradition in that way.

You engage with the precepts of the Bodhisattva. There are sixteen of them. Pretty much they are common sense undertakings. "I take up the way of not killing," "not stealing," "not lying," "not undertaking sexual misconduct," "not misusing drugs." Things like that, simple things. "Not indulging in anger," "not praising myself while abusing others." And as well as that there is taking refuge as part of the precepts. "I take refuge in the Buddha." "I take refuge in the Dharma." "I take refuge in the Sangha." … [It is] to say that I trust that there is a Way and I commit myself to it.


Barry Magid of Ordinary Mind Zendo writes …

[W]hat does Jukai itself mean? That's a question I don't intend to answer, but leave for each individual to decide for themselves.


So, as you can see, views on Jukai come in many flavors.

In my view, the Jukai ceremony celebrates and commemorates two facets that must exist quite on their own, apart from the ceremony … the ceremony itself works no magic, and merely marks their necessary arising:

First, there is the vow and aspiration to live in accord with the Precepts. All the Precepts come down to our seeking, as we can, to live in a manner harmless to ourself and to others, and healthful and helpful to ourself and others, knowing that ultimately there is no separation between ourself and others. If we are living already in such manner … seeking as we can do be a good father/mother/son/daughter/friend/human being … then (in my view) we have already “undertaken the Precepts”, and the ceremony merely commemorates that fact. However, the ceremony also signifies our vow to continue to do so in the future.

Second, the Jukai ceremony stands for our commitment to continue Zen Practice, our commitment to the wider Buddhist Sangha (and, on some level, to a specific Sangha such as Treeleaf), and our linking ourself symbolically to all the Buddhas and Ancestors, and all the other many people, who have walked the Way before us in the past. Again, if one already feels this in one’s heart, then the ceremony merely celebrates that fact, I believe.

Thus, the ceremony itself will not “make you into a Buddhist”. If one does not feel that one “is a Buddhist” already, then the ceremony will do nothing but kill some time in your life. On the other hand, if one has developed a feeling within that one has trust in our Way, in the Buddhas and Ancestors and their Teachings, and will continue to seek to make those the foundation of one’s own life … then one is already a “Buddhist” whether one has the ceremony and receives a robe, fancy name or not.

So, if that is the case, why bother with the ceremony at all?

Again, this is for each person to determine in their own heart. However, personally, I do feel that it is important at certain times to make a formal and open statement of vow and commitment, both for one’s own sake and for the benefit of others in the Sangha and general society who might be encouraged by watching you do so. It is not quite like saying that one is “getting married” versus “just living together” with Buddhism (for one, there is no alimony involved with Jukai if you change your mind later. :? ) But it does signify that one is making a public affirmation of one’s commitment.

But that being said, I do not wish anyone to think that the ceremony somehow creates two classes of people in a Sangha, namely, those who have taken the Precepts and become “Bona Fide Official Buddhists” and those not. It does not do so, any more than having a piece of paper called a “birth certificate’ makes someone actually born! In fact, one receiving Jukai might be said to be actually placing themselves in a position of service to the Sangha and other human beings, thus if anything, lower than those who have not.

Furthermore, I do not think that there is a time “too early” or “too late” to take the Precepts. Some teachers hold off until someone has been practicing Buddhism for several years before allowing Jukai, some a few months, some think it can occur at the start. I will leave that up to each of you to decide what is right for your own life.

Jukai is a heartfelt promise that one makes to oneself (and the universe and to other members of the Sangha … each not separate, by the way) that one aspires to study, practice and live in accord with a certain philosophy. One should be willing, always, to repent one’s past harmful actions and to seek a path for the future which avoids harm. Thus, it is appropriate to undertake Jukai whether at the beginning of that aspiration or after many years of already having pursued the aspiration. Because Jukai does represent a vow to seek to remain within the Precepts although our human nature might push us to angry or greedy, harmful actions again and again, such aspirations and vows can and should be renewed at any time, and from time to time. There is no limit to the number of times or places at which one can undertake “Jukai”. I know people in Japan, for example, who have taken Jukai many times at many different temples. I think that I (Jundo) have taken it four or five times.

One point that will be mentioned again and again during our study is that the “Precepts” are not viewed as “Commandments” from a higher authority. For that reason, many describe them as aspirations, or guideposts, or arrows pointing to a way of living that is healthful to our life and the lives of others, and which will support one's Buddhist Practice. If, later, you “break” the vow, or change you mind on the aspiration or commitment to the Teachings of Buddhism, or decide that Buddhism, Zen Buddhism, a particular teacher or the like is not suitable for you, no hell fires or bolts of lightning await you (although, as we shall study, some traditional Buddhist teachings have said quite otherwise over the millennia … but you have Jundo’s personal promise that it is not so for our Jukai). Nor is breaking a Precept a “sin”in the Judeo-Christian meaning. In my belief, if any “hells” await, they are the “hells” that human beings create within themselves and for those around them by their harmful acts … the very forms of “harm” that the Precepts are intended to prevent.

Some folks may avoid undertaking Jukai for fear that they will be unable to abide perfectly by all the Precepts. Well, our Buddhist Practice recognizes our human nature, and even anticipates our weaknesses. It is very hard, if not impossible, to keep all the Prefects perfectly. But acknowledging that we are imperfect and that we will inevitably make mistakes is a vitally important part of our Practice. We Practice with our human failings and fallings down. If one’s intention to keep the Precepts as best one can is sincere, then the vow is sincere even if we all stumble and fall short more than we might like.

Although taking Jukai at Treeleaf and with Jundo is a serious commitment to this particular place and teacher, and a symbol of your wishing to take our Treeleaf Sangha as your primary (or at least one of your primary) Practice places, we Zen folks are very non-possessive in that regard (at least, most of us are these days). One can learn from countless teachers, and at myriad places over time. For that reason, Jukai can be taken several times with different teachers, and is also perfectly portable. As one travels from practice place to practice place, your “Jukai” goes with you! However, I would ask that people not take Jukai at Treeleaf is they do not feel any special affinity to this place and my guidance of it, for I hope that recipients would consider Jukai, on some level, a serious commitment to our Treeleaf Sangha. But it is a commitment that never prevents one from learning from many teachers. (Basically, if a student in her heart feels that she wishes to devote herself to a particular teacher exclusively, then it is so. And if a student wishes to devote herself to several teachers, then it is so). I hope my meaning here is clear.

So, of what will our Jukai consist?

We will have a class study covering, one by one, the meaning of each of the Precepts, as well as the meaning of “Jukai” and of the ceremony itself, and other related matters. As I said, I strongly encourage all members of Treeleaf to participate without regard to whether they will be taking Jukai this time or have taken it before. The structure of the class will be similar to our “Book Club”, but with the condition that I hope to have a more active conversation ongoing among all the participants. I will take an active role in leading the conversation, and I will be providing a variety of readings for discussion (including Aitken Roshi’s book, “The Mind of Clover”, which we will read through). Obviously, that will take quite a few weeks.

We will also be sewing a Rakusu. To that end, we will again be relying on Rev. Taigu's online sewing lessons and circle like this one from last year ...

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1152

I believe we might call Taigu an expert in matters of the Kesa and Rakusu, and we are grateful that he presented that series of video talks on the history, philosophy and method of making a Rakusu (which is an abbreviated form of the Buddhist Kesa). He will also again make himself available to provide guidance on sewing along the way. Other members of the Sangha who are or have already sewn a Rakusu will also tips (We also have a few folks in the Sangha, such as Rowan, who seem to have varying degrees of Rakusu, and general sewing, experience).

Our Preparations for Jukai will conclude with a 2 day retreat for Jukai recipients, ending with the ceremony. As with all our activities and retreats, it will be conducted fully online. Jukai recipients will participate from home, and will be expected to complete the retreat. However, those with work or family responsibilities will be able to sit the retreat even after our ceremony if personal circumstances do not permit otherwise. We held one last year ... and it went well.

That will be the culmination of a special 100 Day Concentrated Training Period during this time ... details to come.

The date for the ceremony will be in January, at the end of our Precepts study and Rakusu sewing. As last year, I am very flexible, and am even open to splitting the ceremony into 2 or 3 ceremonies to accommodate people in different time zones or with scheduling issues (or working out some other special arrangement if folks have other obstacles).

We will hold what is, I believe, the world’second (but still --only--) “All Online Jukai Ceremony”, using our resources in the “Always Open Zendo”, Ustream, Skype and any other necessary facilities. As with all our online activities here at Treeleaf, our Jukai will be held with the same seriousness and same procedures (with small changes due to logistics) as a Jukai conducted by Zen Sangha anywhere in the world. It is important to all of us who will participate that our "online Jukai" be as profound and comprehensive as any Jukai held by any Zen Buddhist group, and I am determined to do as much, or more, than can be accomplished by other Zen groups that happen to meet under one roof. I want what we accomplish here to serve as a model for other Buddhist Sangha in the future who may wish to attempt such things (I truly think we are pioneers, and other Sangha need to learn how to do this).

But if anyone has any doubts remaining about how serious an “online” Jukai can be, or about any of our online Buddhist activities at Treeleaf, I direct you back to the very first “Sit-a-Long with Jundo” talk I ever gave (which is about dropping all thoughts of “distance” and “separation” in our Practice) …

http://treeleafzen.blogspot.com/2007/03 ... there.html

I am sure that I have forgotten to mention many other points about “Jukai”, but I know that these will all be raised during our many weeks of study and preparation. Please feel free to post in this thread too any comments or questions you may have, and I will do my best to address them.

Finally, we might say that when any one of us undertakes “Jukai”, the whole universe undertakes “Jukai” in that very moment. For each of us, all of us, the Precepts and the whole of Reality are not two.

Gassho, Jundo
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby T.L.Wolf on Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:52 pm

Please count me in for Jukai and Ango. I am looking forward to it.
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby kliffkapus on Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:54 am

While I am interested in officially taking the precepts in Jukai and intensifying my practice during ango I am not certain I will have time to sew a rakusu.
Of course, I haven't looked into what's involved but I am assuming it's somewhat detailed if it requires a series of 20 minute videos!
I don't want to sound lazy and shiftless nor unintentionally declare my ignorance but is attempting to participate in jukai without a rakusu like going to the vet without your dog?
If that's the case then I should probably wait until my life eases up a little bit (whenever that may be!)
Any advice anyone would be willing to offer would be highly appreciated.
(Please be gentle; I'm bumping up against a limitation in my current understanding!)
Thanks in advance,
-K2
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Jundo on Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:28 am

kliffkapus wrote:While I am interested in officially taking the precepts in Jukai and intensifying my practice during ango I am not certain I will have time to sew a rakusu.
Of course, I haven't looked into what's involved but I am assuming it's somewhat detailed if it requires a series of 20 minute videos!
I don't want to sound lazy and shiftless nor unintentionally declare my ignorance but is attempting to participate in jukai without a rakusu like going to the vet without your dog?
If that's the case then I should probably wait until my life eases up a little bit (whenever that may be!)
Any advice anyone would be willing to offer would be highly appreciated.
(Please be gentle; I'm bumping up against a limitation in my current understanding!)
Thanks in advance,
-K2


Absent very unusual personal circumstances, the sewing of the Rakusu is a central part of our undertaking Jukai. We sew ... with nothing in the least to attain, no thought of "perfection" or "imperfection" (yet we are nonetheless diligent and careful in our sewing ... all a Koan there) ... and so we sew.

If someone has just started sitting with the Sangha ... or even if someone has been sitting with the Sangha for many years ... no rush to Jukai. Always another Jukai around the corner (and, anyway, it primarily is a celebration of how one lives a harmless and committed life ... the ceremony works no miraculous change itself, much as a birthday party recognizes what it otherwise true).

Gassho, J
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Dosho on Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:10 am

I cannot speak for others, but for me the sewing of rakusu was a very integral part of the Jukai and I cannot imagine it without that process. The sewing was a physical representation of what we were learning and provided a tactile experience I don't think could ever have been created in another way. I could be wrong about that, but that's what came to my head in reference to your question. :wink:

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby kliffkapus on Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:27 am

OK OK! :D
If it's that important and that rewarding then who am I not to do it?!
I'll take a closer look, I swear.

I find I have "zombie" posted a few things (aka bringing up topics that are addressed elsewhere on the board) and I just want to apologize if that irritates anybody. I am slowly trying to read/absorb/digest the copious amounts of information available here.

In my enthusiasm I may blurt out some tiresome topic that has already been beaten into the dust!

Thanks,
-K2
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Tobiishi on Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:28 am

kliffkapus wrote:OK OK! :D
If it's that important and that rewarding then who am I not to do it?!
I'll take a closer look, I swear.

I find I have "zombie" posted a few things (aka bringing up topics that are addressed elsewhere on the board) and I just want to apologize if that irritates anybody. I am slowly trying to read/absorb/digest the copious amounts of information available here.

In my enthusiasm I may blurt out some tiresome topic that has already been beaten into the dust!

Thanks,
-K2


Our tiresome, dusty topics shine again each time someone asks a question- although previous postings do get referenced from time to time, Jundo normally addresses the question by answering personally, just as he would if you were standing physically before him (it would get pretty boring around here if all we ever did was answer questions with a link to a previous answer!)

Besides, zombies hold a special place in the hearts of some... :twisted:

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby BrianW on Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:57 pm

Hello all,

I am in for Jukai! I have my fabric and will begin, at least practicing the stitching, tonight.

(Jundo) will you be adding another thread on Rakusu sewing for 2009 or should we just add our comments and questions to the 2008 thread? I found last year’s thread to be extremely helpful and encouraging. Thus, it would be nice if the old one could remain and a new one perhaps?

Gassho,
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Kevin on Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:20 am

I can't remember if I said this elsewhere, but I am definitely IN for Jukai this year. I just finished (almost) sewing my rakusu. Just need to add the silk and joro! :D

Gassho,

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Jundo on Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:17 am

BrianW wrote:Hello all,

I am in for Jukai! I have my fabric and will begin, at least practicing the stitching, tonight.

(Jundo) will you be adding another thread on Rakusu sewing for 2009 or should we just add our comments and questions to the 2008 thread? I found last year’s thread to be extremely helpful and encouraging. Thus, it would be nice if the old one could remain and a new one perhaps?

Gassho,
BrianW


Yes, I will start a new "Sewing with Taigu Thread" topic thread when the time comes ... but will keep the old one too, and we will refer to it often, as it contains a wealth of experience and information.
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby BrianW on Sun Aug 30, 2009 2:03 am

Jundo wrote:Yes, I will start a new "Sewing with Taigu Thread" topic thread when the time comes ... but will keep the old one too, and we will refer to it often, as it contains a wealth of experience and information.


Thanks Jundo! The 2 pdf files, videos, and 2008 thread contain a wealth of helpful info. I am completely new to sewing, but seem to have a handle on it....at least in concept.

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby newcdn on Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:18 pm

Please count me in for the 2nd Jukai. Like Brian W. I am new to sewing, so I have some fabric that I am practicing on. I look forward to participating with everyone:)
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Luis on Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:25 pm

Hi Jundo!

Count me in at least for the precepts study!
I'll be glad to sew a rakusu with you guys! But i'm actually sewing one I started in june, I'll try to finish it before Taigu starts another topic.
But I'm only putting the frame on... so It's going to take a "few" more hours!
Do I finish this one for the Jukai, or I'll begin another one ?

Gassho to all !

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Myoshin on Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:17 pm

Count me in for Jukai this year!

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby SunnyP on Tue Sep 01, 2009 2:56 am

Hi,

I hope i'm not too late to participate in Jukai. If not, count me in.

Gassho,
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby frogman on Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:33 am

I also would like to at least join in for precepts study and rakuso sewing.

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Jundo on Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:46 am

SunnyP wrote:Hi,

I hope i'm not too late to participate in Jukai. If not, count me in.

Gassho,
Paula


No, not too late!

Welcome to everyone. I think you will all find this walk very rewarding. We will start in about two weeks from today, or a bit earlier.
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby kfrance0 on Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:30 am

I just got the material I'm planning to use for the rakusu... and now, not only do I need to learn to sew, I need to learn to iron! LOL In case anyone is still looking, high threadcount pillowcases from overstock.com seem to make good raw materials. Fairly inexpensive, nice quality. For other supplies (needles, pins, thread, measuring tape, etc), I raided my grandmother's old sewing machine drawers. :) I think I'm going to have to make a trip to the fabric store for some heavy green embroidery thread for the pine needle emblem, but I think I've got everything else lined up. :)
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Govert on Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:54 pm

Hi

I wanted to do Jukai already some time, so I will sign up for this, even if time is short, ..

gassho

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Dosho on Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:55 pm

Hi all,

I've been planning to join in the jukai discussions as Jundo has recommended for all folks in the sangha, but I remembered today that he also said we could take jukai multiple times. Is there any difference between taking part in the discussions vs. officially "doing" jukai for those of us who did it last year? It doesn't matter to me since I'd do whatever I can to participate in either event, but I just thought I'd ask in case there was something different so I'd know what that was!

Gassho,
Dosho
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Jundo on Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:41 am

Dosho wrote:Hi all,

I've been planning to join in the jukai discussions as Jundo has recommended for all folks in the sangha, but I remembered today that he also said we could take jukai multiple times. Is there any difference between taking part in the discussions vs. officially "doing" jukai for those of us who did it last year? It doesn't matter to me since I'd do whatever I can to participate in either event, but I just thought I'd ask in case there was something different so I'd know what that was!

Gassho,
Dosho


Hi Dosho,

No, there is nothing different. I believe one can take Jukai any number of times (I have met people in Japan who do so every year).

I also believe that one can take Jukai with several lineages (although I have heard of other Zen groups that demand monogamy and say you cannot ... I do not see that for Jukai). I have undergone Jukai with 3 different teachers who were important in my life.

I ask that people "re-undertaking" Jukai join in the Precepts study again, and read the reading assignments again ... but I do not require sewing a second Rakusu (unless you wish to do so ... you may if you wish to sew again. Some folks, under Taigu, are even sewing a full long Kesa).

Gassho, Jundo
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Igor on Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:23 am

Please, count me in for Jukai this year!

Gassho,

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Dosho on Wed Sep 02, 2009 10:03 pm

Jundo wrote:Some folks, under Taigu, are even sewing a full long Kesa).


Thanks Jundo.

Actually, I'm one of those Taigu kesa folks you mentioned: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1832&p=27153#p27085

Looking forward to the discussions!

Gassho,
Dosho
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Jikyo on Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:00 am

Hi Jundo and all,

I'm in for Jukai, too. I said so on the Ango page, and thought it wise to state it here as well. Looking forward to studying and sewing together.

Gassho, Jean
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby DarrellGKing on Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:42 am

It may be my time.

D
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby ajita on Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:54 pm

I am in for the sewing and precepts study; will know later if I'm ready to take the precepts.
- Amy
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby shogyo on Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:05 pm

needle at the ready

Gassho
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby zak on Sun Sep 06, 2009 7:19 am

Please include me in the 2nd Jukai.

Gassho
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Tobiishi on Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:10 pm

I just scrolled up through the thread and saw that I had not made an official commitment for Jukai Part II... so, here it is.

I got dibs on the zafu next to the refreshments table :roll:

gassho
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby lindaw on Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:18 pm

This thread seems to be lacking my commitments as well.

It feels like the right time for me to do this, so I too would like to participate in Jukai

gassho,

Linda
~Gassho~

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby sarsem on Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:59 am

I plan to participate

In gassho

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby will on Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:04 am

I just want to give Daido Loori roshi a Gassho _/\_

W

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To penetrate reality, though reality is boundless.
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby willdover on Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:17 pm

Just an official "I'm game" for Jukai.

_/\_

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Shonin on Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:45 am

I'm in too. Being a lil slow somedays, I somehow missed this thread. So come payday will get my sewing materials and purchase the book. : )
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Luis on Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:20 pm

Hi Jundo! :D

I already post in this thread but it wasn't very clear (as usual :lol: )!
So, please count me in for the precepts study AND for the Jukai! :P
I'll go for fabric to make a new rakusu during the week, and I'll began as soon as I get it!

I hope to get the book as soon as possible, it's a bit difficult to get it here, so I'll purchase it from amazon as soon as I get some extra money... times are what they are for students... :?

Gassho,

Luis
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby dharma_momma on Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:24 pm

Yeah!

Getting my book and beginning to practice. :)
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Shonin on Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:59 pm

Luis, i can't find a copy here in town eiyther. One of the bookstores hasit available online so will see if they can order it for me. Amazon was the other option.
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Jundo on Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:47 pm

Luis wrote:Hi Jundo! :D

I already post in this thread but it wasn't very clear (as usual :lol: )!
So, please count me in for the precepts study AND for the Jukai! :P
I'll go for fabric to make a new rakusu during the week, and I'll began as soon as I get it!

I hope to get the book as soon as possible, it's a bit difficult to get it here, so I'll purchase it from amazon as soon as I get some extra money... times are what they are for students... :?

Gassho,

Luis


Here are some prices for some used copies, including postage, to Belgium.

http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?ac=sl ... 2520clover

They also quote for other currencies and locations.
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Shohei on Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:09 pm

If anyone would like a copy and is having difficulty finding one or a bit strapped for cash. I will give mine to whomever for free and would ship it. If you are that person please just drop me an email (me thinks you can use the forum here to do so)

Gassho
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Dosho on Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:37 am

Hi all,

Same offer from me as Shohei if anyone has trouble finding the book. I was going to offer it this morning, but I stopped myself for a couple different reasons, both centered in clinging to the self. But it is the right thing to do and I offer it now. Thank you for this chance to offer something to those in the sangha who may be in need of a small simple kindness.

Gassho,
Dosho
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Jikyo on Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:05 pm

Hi all,

“Mind of Clover” arrived this week and I have started reading - what a wonderful book. I purchased fabric, thread, etc. yesterday for the rakusu and will wash and iron today. I’ve watched half of Taigu’s videos, read a bunch of last year’s sewing thread posts and am getting all geared up for the process. I so appreciate those of you who are so generous with your time and advice to a rakusu novice like me.

Gassho, Jean
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Jinho on Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:37 am

kliffkapus wrote:While I am interested in officially taking the precepts in Jukai and intensifying my practice during ango I am not certain I will have time to sew a rakusu.
Of course, I haven't looked into what's involved but I am assuming it's somewhat detailed if it requires a series of 20 minute videos!
I don't want to sound lazy and shiftless nor unintentionally declare my ignorance but is attempting to participate in jukai without a rakusu like going to the vet without your dog?
If that's the case then I should probably wait until my life eases up a little bit (whenever that may be!)
Any advice anyone would be willing to offer would be highly appreciated.
(Please be gentle; I'm bumping up against a limitation in my current understanding!)
Thanks in advance,
-K2


Hi,

Actually the videos are 9 minutes and go over each little point slowly so it is very clear. My suggestion is to get started on a rakusu and see how it goes. You may find it is much less time than you thought.

gassho,

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby JamesVB on Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:44 am

Hi Everyone,

This is my formal commitment to participate in this year's Jukai.
_/|\_
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby nichole on Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:59 am

I am in as well for this year. Last year life was full of lots of surprises and curveballs for me. So this year I will be committing to a much more dedicated study. It seems as though the busier I get, zazen suffers and then life really gets unbalanced quickly....


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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby mahakalaugh on Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:10 am

damn!! seems a bit late to jump in the ango stream, but can i still be counted in for the jukai?
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Jundo on Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:05 am

mahakalaugh wrote:damn!! seems a bit late to jump in the ango stream, but can i still be counted in for the jukai?


Ya sure can ... get you needle and thread and start sewing! Start studying the Precepts (not too late to catch up on the reading), and seek not to do harm ... and to live in a way beneficial to self and others (not two) ...

Also, on the Ango ... never too late, the way we roll around here. If ya missed some days at the beginningless beginning, just add them on to the endless end. :)

Gassho, Jundo
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby newcdn on Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:23 am

I am going to bow out of Jukai this year (due to life events) but I will still be following along & cheering the participants:)
Gassho,
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Shonin on Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:17 am

I hope everything works out for you, Jeff. :)

Dave _/\_
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby newcdn on Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:05 am

Thank you Dave, It's all going to work out:)
Gassho,
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby mahakalaugh on Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:14 am

thanks jundo. well, count me in "officially"...

gosh-oh!

-tim
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Zenarchist108 on Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:12 pm

I would love to get in on this if it's not to late to do so.
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can't overcome,
I will smash with discernment —
as an unfired pot with a stone."
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Adam on Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:06 am

I'm interested in being a part of the Jukai, but am I too late? I haven't started the reading or the sewing yet, so maybe I should wait till the next time around? I don't want to rush anything...

Gassho,

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Jundo on Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:39 am

Adam wrote:I'm interested in being a part of the Jukai, but am I too late? I haven't started the reading or the sewing yet, so maybe I should wait till the next time around? I don't want to rush anything...

Gassho,

Adam


Hi Adam,

Since you are so new to Zen practice and to the Sangha ... I will take no position on this. You follow your heart.

If you wish to jump in, grab a needle and thread. Begin to study the Precepts.

However, I might suggest to wait.

Jukai is about acting so as to avoid harm, and in beneficial ways, toward self and others (not two, by the way), and to honor the Buddha's teachings and Lineage. That is the most important points, and the ceremony is merely a celebration of that. I might wait until next year for the ceremony itself, and just concentrate on your basic practice right now.

Sit Zazen ... study the Buddhist teachings, and the rest will all fall into place with time.

Gassho, Jundo
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Adam on Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:53 pm

Jundo wrote:
Adam wrote:I'm interested in being a part of the Jukai, but am I too late? I haven't started the reading or the sewing yet, so maybe I should wait till the next time around? I don't want to rush anything...

Gassho,

Adam


Hi Adam,

Since you are so new to Zen practice and to the Sangha ... I will take no position on this. You follow your heart.

If you wish to jump in, grab a needle and thread. Begin to study the Precepts.

However, I might suggest to wait.

Jukai is about acting so as to avoid harm, and in beneficial ways, toward self and others (not two, by the way), and to honor the Buddha's teachings and Lineage. That is the most important points, and the ceremony is merely a celebration of that. I might wait until next year for the ceremony itself, and just concentrate on your basic practice right now.

Sit Zazen ... study the Buddhist teachings, and the rest will all fall into place with time.

Gassho, Jundo



Jundo,

Thanks for the advice! I was thinking about this and I really don't think I'm ready to go through Jukai at this time. I've noticed that I'm trying to grasp everything all at once, and I really just need to focus on the teachings and zazen for now. In addition, I've noticed that I seem to have started to plan a goal with my practice, and I don't want to do that. I really want to be open and not have any expectations or delusions about what I'm doing. I have finally found the truth after 30 years of searching, so I wanna remain focused and not expect anything. I really appreciate the quick answers to our posts and the wonderful videos that you provide for each one of us in the Sangha. Thanks again Jundo.

Gassho,

Adam
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Jundo on Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:03 am

I've noticed that I seem to have started to plan a goal with my practice, and I don't want to do that. I really want to be open and not have any expectations or delusions about what I'm doing. ... I wanna remain focused and not expect anything.


Ah, I see that you have already made an important find.

I sometimes say that Zazen (Shikantaza style) is sat because it is one-pointed pointlessness. Yes, even though we seek no 'benefits' from that, and know that there is nothing to attain ... that does not mean that learning though-and-through to seek no benefit ... is not a GREAT BENEFIT, and that needing to-the-marrow nothing to attain is not a GREAT ATTAINMENT! :shock:

What truly makes Shikantaza as Shikantaza is that no special state is being sought, no wild satori, no enlightenment apart from just what is. There is no goal, nothing to obtain ...

... with the proviso, of course, that truly achieving to-the-marrow non-achievement, and obtaining the goal of radical goallessnes is a world shaking achievement and attainment! :shock:

We are not seeking a particular state of awareness of awareness ... Of course, sometimes such states will come, sometimes they will not come. We just move on, seeking nothing by not seeking ... thus finding everything.

You see ... it is the little "self" that needs, feels "lack", needs to "get" somewhere other than where it is, cannot be still. "Just Sit" Zazen without seeking to find ... and the "self" is put out of a job, body-mind dropped away.

It is a bit like escaping by giving up all thought of escape. I often compare it to those toy Chinese finger-cuffs in that way ...

Image

You pull and you pull, thinking you must escape or obtain something ... and the cuffs just tighten. However, completely give up, relax, stop trying ... and you slip right out. Well, the way to relax and be still is not to try to "relax and be still" ... but to do nothing, relax and be still. Let it be, let it go ...

Anyway, that is what makes "Shikanataza" Just Sitting a very special way of Zazen ... because there is nothing special. 8)

Gassho, Jundo
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... AGAIN! (2009)

Postby Adam on Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:45 pm

Jundo,

Thank you so much for the reply. I am struggling with this new way of thinking, but I know with the support of you and the Sangha, I'll get through it just fine.

Gassho,

Adam
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