IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

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Hello. This is our forum where we held discussions in preparation for our recent (January) annual Treeleaf Sangha JUKAI (Undertaking the Precepts) CEREMONY. This Forum also includes a discussion thread and instruction films on Rakusu Sewing by Rev. Taigu Turlur, for which we thank him very much. Although this Jukai is now completed, PREPARATIONS FOR OUR NEXT JUKAI WILL BEGIN IN THE FALL of 2010. Gassho - Jundo
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IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Jundo on Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:15 pm

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(A LONG POST) ...


THE TIME FOR TREELEAF SANGHA’S THIRD “JUKAI” HAS ARRIVED!

Before I discuss what "Jukai" is ... a note on a book we will be using for it, which should be purchased by those interested ...

For our upcoming Jukai (Undertaking the Precepts) Ceremony, I will again use Robert Aitken Roshi's, THE MIND OF CLOVER. It is a beautiful examination of the Precepts and Buddhist ethics.

http://www.amazon.com/Mind-Clover-Essay ... 059&sr=8-1

As last time, I will supplement that with various short readings from other teachers, available online ...

Even folks not participating in the Jukai will be more than welcome to join in the reading and discussion of the book. As well, our regular "Book Club" will continue simultaneously with reading for the Jukai for those who wish to participate in both.

And as Precepts study is vital for all Buddhists, whether or not you are preparing for the Jukai ceremony or already undertook it last time ... it is good to review it again! So, everyone in the Sangha should really join in this one, I believe.

What's more: Can folks who have already undertaken Jukai undertake Jukai again! YES! (And in such case, if you already have sewn a Rakusu with us in a prior year, you will not need to sew one this time ... up to you if you wish to do so, although lovely to sew again) We will again have our 2 day "Rohatsu Retreat" in December ... and...

PLEASE NOTE THAT WE WILL AGAIN COMBINE THIS YEAR'S JUKAI PRESENTATION WITH A CONCENTRATED 100 DAY "ANGO" SPECIAL PRACTICE PERIOD ... DETAILS TO COME ...

Actual study and sewing for the Jukai will begin in early to mid September ... so please sit with the following until then, and consider if you wish to walk this path ... :D

Gassho, Jundo

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JUKAI:

I have heard many whispers and comments from folks these past weeks and months on just what “Jukai” means. So, I thought I would explain my (Jundo’s) personal view of “Jukai” at Treeleaf Sangha. As well, over the weeks of our preparation, I will present many writings and talks by other Buddhist teachers expressing how each views the meaning of “Jukai” and all which accompanies that, for a single truth can be expressed in many ways and seen through many eyes.

However, ultimately, the real significance of “Jukai” will be that which each recipient finds for herself, something I am sure will develop and change as we go through the process. For that reason, some folks may wish to join in our preparatory studies and work (such as Precepts Study and Rakusu sewing), but only decide later if they wish the ceremony.

That is fine with me.

In fact, I hope that even those folks who decide not to pursue Jukai this time will still join in our Precepts Study classes nonetheless, as the Precepts are as vital to our Practice as Zazen. Truly, given their importance, I want to come as close as I ever do around here to making the Precepts course “mandatory” for Sangha members. They are central to our Practice. In fact, as Master Dogen taught in the chapter of Shobogenzo entitled “Jukai” (which we will read as part of our preparations), the Precepts are Zazen. He said …

Unless we accept the Precepts, we are not yet a disciple of the Buddhas, nor are we an offspring of our Ancestral Masters, because they have considered one’s departing from error and resisting wrong to be synonymous with practicing meditation and inquiring of the Way. The words, “They have made the Precepts foremost” are already what the Treasure House of the Eye of the True Teaching is.


So, what is the meaning of “Jukai”?

Let me offer several descriptions …

According to the “Buddhist Dictionary”, Jukai literally means “to receive” or “to undertake the Precepts”. It is the ceremony both of one’s formally committing to the Buddhist Sangha and to the Practice of Zen Buddhism, and of one’s undertaking the “Sixteen Mahayana Bodhisattva Precepts” as guidelines for life. Traditionally for Jukai, one receives from a teacher the “Rakusu”, which represents the robe of the Buddha, the “Kechimyaku”, a written lineage chart connecting the recipient to the Buddhas and Ancestors of the past, and a “Dharma Name” selected by the teacher and representing qualities of the recipient’s personality and practice (unless one already has a Dharma Name from a previous Jukai that one wishes to keep).

My teacher, Nishijima Roshi, has written that one may receive Jukai at any time, including at the very start of one’s Buddhist Path …

When a Buddhist seeks to commence upon the study of Buddhism, there is first a ceremony which should be undertaken: It is called ‘Jukai,’ the "Receipt of the Precepts”, the ceremony in which one receives and undertakes the Precepts as a disciple of the Buddha. … Master Dogen specifically left us a chapter entitled ‘Jukai,’ in which it is strongly emphasized that, when the Buddhist believer first sets out to commence Buddhist practice ….. be it monk, be it lay person, no matter ….. the initial needed steps include the holding of the ceremony of Jukai and the undertaking of the Precepts …

Nishijima Roshi also offers this description of the Precepts …

The rationale of all of the Buddhist Precepts, the Mahayana Boddhisattva Precepts …… is as a pointing toward the best ways for us to live in this life, in this real world…. how to live benefiting both ourselves and others as best we can.

Daido Loori Roshi of Zen Mountain Monastery has described “Jukai” this way:

The Buddhist Precepts are one of the most vital areas of practice for students… In essence, the Precepts are a definition of the life of a Buddha, of how a Buddha functions in the world. They are how enlightened beings live their lives, relate to other human beings and this planet, and make moral and ethical decisions while manifesting wisdom and compassion in everyday life.

The Soto Sect’s “Shumucho” (Religious Affairs Office in Japan) reminds us …

[T]hough people approach it with different motivations, all participants must realize that in Jukai-e they inherit the life and quintessence of Buddhism as passed down correctly by generation after generation of Ancestors since the days of ancient India.

Taiun Michael Ellison says:

[We] hold the Jukai or lay Zen Buddhist initiation ceremony for those wishing to receive (ju) the precepts (kai or sila) and formally confirm entering the Buddhist path. This is an important and powerful event in the life of a practitioner and in the life of the Sangha. This ceremony, historically known as “entering the stream,” has been performed continually since the time of the Buddha. In the Soto Zen tradition, the ceremony continues to be offered exactly as set down by Master Dogen in his text Kyojukaimon (Instructions on Giving the Precepts) more than 800 years ago.

[It] is available to anyone who has been practicing steadily for several months and who wishes to deepen and formalize their commitment to practice and to the Sangha. So the ceremony is at once both a beginning and a confirmation of something that has already occurred.

John Tarrant Roshi offers this perspective …

Every year around the beginning of winter we do the ceremony of Jukai in the Sangha. It is the primary initiation ceremony of Zen. … In Jukai you receive the Rakusu, which represents the robe of the Buddha, and your connection to all in the ancient lineage of people who have walked the Way and suffered for wisdom and also gained wisdom. You share in their light and their effort. You take on a Buddhist name, identifying yourself in the tradition in that way.

You engage with the precepts of the Bodhisattva. There are sixteen of them. Pretty much they are common sense undertakings. "I take up the way of not killing," "not stealing," "not lying," "not undertaking sexual misconduct," "not misusing drugs." Things like that, simple things. "Not indulging in anger," "not praising myself while abusing others." And as well as that there is taking refuge as part of the precepts. "I take refuge in the Buddha." "I take refuge in the Dharma." "I take refuge in the Sangha." … [It is] to say that I trust that there is a Way and I commit myself to it.


Barry Magid of Ordinary Mind Zendo writes …

[W]hat does Jukai itself mean? That's a question I don't intend to answer, but leave for each individual to decide for themselves.


So, as you can see, views on Jukai come in many flavors.

In my view, the Jukai ceremony celebrates and commemorates two facets that must exist quite on their own, apart from the ceremony … the ceremony itself works no magic, and merely marks their necessary arising:

First, there is the vow and aspiration to live in accord with the Precepts. All the Precepts come down to our seeking, as we can, to live in a manner harmless to ourself and to others, and healthful and helpful to ourself and others, knowing that ultimately there is no separation between ourself and others. If we are living already in such manner … seeking as we can do be a good father/mother/son/daughter/friend/human being … then (in my view) we have already “undertaken the Precepts”, and the ceremony merely commemorates that fact. However, the ceremony also signifies our vow to continue to do so in the future.

Second, the Jukai ceremony stands for our commitment to continue Zen Practice, our commitment to the wider Buddhist Sangha (and, on some level, to a specific Sangha such as Treeleaf), and our linking ourself symbolically to all the Buddhas and Ancestors, and all the other many people, who have walked the Way before us in the past. Again, if one already feels this in one’s heart, then the ceremony merely celebrates that fact, I believe.

Thus, the ceremony itself will not “make you into a Buddhist”. If one does not feel that one “is a Buddhist” already, then the ceremony will do nothing but kill some time in your life. On the other hand, if one has developed a feeling within that one has trust in our Way, in the Buddhas and Ancestors and their Teachings, and will continue to seek to make those the foundation of one’s own life … then one is already a “Buddhist” whether one has the ceremony and receives a robe, fancy name or not.

So, if that is the case, why bother with the ceremony at all?

Again, this is for each person to determine in their own heart. However, personally, I do feel that it is important at certain times to make a formal and open statement of vow and commitment, both for one’s own sake and for the benefit of others in the Sangha and general society who might be encouraged by watching you do so. It is not quite like saying that one is “getting married” versus “just living together” with Buddhism (for one, there is no alimony involved with Jukai if you change your mind later. :? ) But it does signify that one is making a public affirmation of one’s commitment.

But that being said, I do not wish anyone to think that the ceremony somehow creates two classes of people in a Sangha, namely, those who have taken the Precepts and become “Bona Fide Official Buddhists” and those not. It does not do so, any more than having a piece of paper called a “birth certificate’ makes someone actually born! In fact, one receiving Jukai might be said to be actually placing themselves in a position of service to the Sangha and other human beings, thus if anything, lower than those who have not.

Furthermore, I do not think that there is a time “too early” or “too late” to take the Precepts. Some teachers hold off until someone has been practicing Buddhism for several years before allowing Jukai, some a few months, some think it can occur at the start. I will leave that up to each of you to decide what is right for your own life.

Jukai is a heartfelt promise that one makes to oneself (and the universe and to other members of the Sangha … each not separate, by the way) that one aspires to study, practice and live in accord with a certain philosophy. One should be willing, always, to repent one’s past harmful actions and to seek a path for the future which avoids harm. Thus, it is appropriate to undertake Jukai whether at the beginning of that aspiration or after many years of already having pursued the aspiration. Because Jukai does represent a vow to seek to remain within the Precepts although our human nature might push us to angry or greedy, harmful actions again and again, such aspirations and vows can and should be renewed at any time, and from time to time. There is no limit to the number of times or places at which one can undertake “Jukai”. I know people in Japan, for example, who have taken Jukai many times at many different temples. I think that I (Jundo) have taken it four or five times.

One point that will be mentioned again and again during our study is that the “Precepts” are not viewed as “Commandments” from a higher authority. For that reason, many describe them as aspirations, or guideposts, or arrows pointing to a way of living that is healthful to our life and the lives of others, and which will support one's Buddhist Practice. If, later, you “break” the vow, or change you mind on the aspiration or commitment to the Teachings of Buddhism, or decide that Buddhism, Zen Buddhism, a particular teacher or the like is not suitable for you, no hell fires or bolts of lightning await you (although, as we shall study, some traditional Buddhist teachings have said quite otherwise over the millennia … but you have Jundo’s personal promise that it is not so for our Jukai). Nor is breaking a Precept a “sin”in the Judeo-Christian meaning. In my belief, if any “hells” await, they are the “hells” that human beings create within themselves and for those around them by their harmful acts … the very forms of “harm” that the Precepts are intended to prevent.

Some folks may avoid undertaking Jukai for fear that they will be unable to abide perfectly by all the Precepts. Well, our Buddhist Practice recognizes our human nature, and even anticipates our weaknesses. It is very hard, if not impossible, to keep all the Prefects perfectly. But acknowledging that we are imperfect and that we will inevitably make mistakes is a vitally important part of our Practice. We Practice with our human failings and fallings down. If one’s intention to keep the Precepts as best one can is sincere, then the vow is sincere even if we all stumble and fall short more than we might like.

Although taking Jukai at Treeleaf and with Jundo and Taigu is a serious commitment to this particular place and teacher, and a symbol of your wishing to take our Treeleaf Sangha as your primary (or at least one of your primary) Practice places, we Zen folks are very non-possessive in that regard (at least, most of us are these days). One can learn from countless teachers, and at myriad places over time. For that reason, Jukai can be taken several times with different teachers, and is also perfectly portable. As one travels from practice place to practice place, your “Jukai” goes with you! However, I would ask that people not take Jukai at Treeleaf is they do not feel any special affinity to this place and my guidance of it, for I hope that recipients would consider Jukai, on some level, a serious commitment to our Treeleaf Sangha. But it is a commitment that never prevents one from learning from many teachers. (Basically, if a student in her heart feels that she wishes to devote herself to a particular teacher exclusively, then it is so. And if a student wishes to devote herself to several teachers, then it is so). I hope my meaning here is clear.

So, of what will our Jukai consist?

We will have a class study covering, one by one, the meaning of each of the Precepts, as well as the meaning of “Jukai” and of the ceremony itself, and other related matters. As I said, I strongly encourage all members of Treeleaf to participate without regard to whether they will be taking Jukai this time or have taken it before. The structure of the class will be similar to our “Book Club”, but with the condition that I hope to have a more active conversation ongoing among all the participants. I will take an active role in leading the conversation, and I will be providing a variety of readings for discussion (including Aitken Roshi’s book, “The Mind of Clover”, which we will read through). Obviously, that will take quite a few weeks.

We will also be sewing a Rakusu. To that end, we will again be relying on Rev. Taigu's online sewing lessons and circle like this one from last year ...

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1152

I believe we might call Taigu an expert in matters of the Kesa and Rakusu, and we are grateful that he presented that series of video talks on the history, philosophy and method of making a Rakusu (which is an abbreviated form of the Buddhist Kesa). He will also again make himself available to provide guidance on sewing along the way. Other members of the Sangha who are or have already sewn a Rakusu will also tips (We also have a few folks in the Sangha, such as Rowan, who seem to have varying degrees of Rakusu, and general sewing, experience).

Our Preparations for Jukai will conclude with a 2 day retreat for Jukai recipients, ending with the ceremony. As with all our activities and retreats, it will be conducted fully online. Jukai recipients will participate from home, and will be expected to complete the retreat. However, those with work or family responsibilities will be able to sit the retreat even after our ceremony if personal circumstances do not permit otherwise. We held one last year ... and it went well.

That will be the culmination of a special 100 Day Concentrated Training Period during this time ... details to come.

The date for the ceremony will be in January, at the end of our Precepts study and Rakusu sewing. As last year, I am very flexible, and am even open to splitting the ceremony into 2 or 3 ceremonies to accommodate people in different time zones or with scheduling issues (or working out some other special arrangement if folks have other obstacles).

We will hold what is, I believe, the world’second (but still --only--) “All Online Jukai Ceremony”, using our resources in the “Always Open Zendo”, Ustream, Skype and any other necessary facilities. As with all our online activities here at Treeleaf, our Jukai will be held with the same seriousness and same procedures (with small changes due to logistics) as a Jukai conducted by Zen Sangha anywhere in the world. It is important to all of us who will participate that our "online Jukai" be as profound and comprehensive as any Jukai held by any Zen Buddhist group, and I am determined to do as much, or more, than can be accomplished by other Zen groups that happen to meet under one roof. I want what we accomplish here to serve as a model for other Buddhist Sangha in the future who may wish to attempt such things (I truly think we are pioneers, and other Sangha need to learn how to do this).

But if anyone has any doubts remaining about how serious an “online” Jukai can be, or about any of our online Buddhist activities at Treeleaf, I direct you back to the very first “Sit-a-Long with Jundo” talk I ever gave (which is about dropping all thoughts of “distance” and “separation” in our Practice) …

http://treeleafzen.blogspot.com/2007/03 ... there.html

I am sure that I have forgotten to mention many other points about “Jukai”, but I know that these will all be raised during our many weeks of study and preparation. Please feel free to post in this thread too any comments or questions you may have, and I will do my best to address them.

Finally, we might say that when any one of us undertakes “Jukai”, the whole universe undertakes “Jukai” in that very moment. For each of us, all of us, the Precepts and the whole of Reality are not two.

Gassho, Jundo
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Dojin on Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:19 am

Jundo what about those of us who wish to saw a Kesa this time for the Jukai?
personally i think it might take me a long time to do so so i would like to get started as soon as possible since i also have a wedding to plan and organize and work with a little but of studying in the university i am pretty much stomped but i still intend to do this Jukai last the first and the last one. so when are the kesa sewing commences? i should already go by the material.

Gassho, Dojin.
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby sittingzen on Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:46 am

Very much looking forward to participating in Jukai.

Gassho,

SZ
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Taigu on Sat Jun 26, 2010 2:41 am

Hi Dojin,

It is a very good idea as you already have the experience of sewing a rakusu to start a kesa. In Jukai, the kesa is extra. In fact only the rakusu is required. You may receive the kesa at a later stage using Skype in a short ceremony with Jundo or Taigu. I understand that you are eager to sew and nothing stops you to check the blog I made a few years ago, as imperfect as it is, where you will find all the information needed to give it a good start. You could also get in touch with experienced people in our Sangha like Shohei who can provide guidance.

Now the kesa should not be rushed. And like many other things, waiting is also part of the journey. Why didn't I start the vids yet? Simply because my life is my life, and yours is yours. In other words, among many reasons that are not excuses: the guy doing the dye in Kyoto is late ( he has not returned the fabric yet, so I cannot start the project, he should have done so a month ago), I give most of my time to a very busy job and what's left to the Dharma, writing, mailing, meeting people on skype, preparing vids, commenting on posts and threads, doing my own practice and this leaves me with very little time to sleep. So as soon as possible, when I get the fabric and find the time to shoot the vids, I will provide the community with a sewing guide.

In the next few days, I will make the written version of the course available on line. Will start to shoot the vids mid July if I have the fabrric...

I am very happy to hear about your marriage and wish you the very best. Preparing such an important event is not easy.

Take care.


gassho


Taigu
Taigu, teacher at Treeleaf Sangha, was born in 1964, started Zazen early and received Shukke Tokudo in 1983 at age 18 from Rev. Mokusho Zeisler of the Deshimaru Lineage. Received Dharma Transmission from Chodo Cross in 2003. Now resides in Osaka, Japan.
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Bsmith on Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:15 am

I have wanted to make my commitment to the precepts and practice more formal for a long time but until now have been unable to do so due to work and family commitments. I have already ordered Robert Aitken Roshi's, “The Mind of Clover” and am looking forward to reading it with the other folk on Treeleaf.


Gassho
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Taylor on Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:01 pm

Terribly excited to start! Well, I have kinda haha below is a picture of the nearly completed Rakusu I started a few weeks ago. Much to my surprise I have done my own version of stitching so please do not take it as a shining example. Every imperfect stitch, I like to think, was done with sincerity enough.

Although uneven, imperfect
Though stitched poorly
It is still the Buddha's Robe.

Welcome to everyone who is participating this year!
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Kyrillos on Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:15 pm

Taylor,

MMmm. quite nice work; there is nothing to apologize for in what you have done thus far. our Rakusu looks fine.

Gassho,

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Jinyu on Sun Jun 27, 2010 7:52 pm

Taigu wrote:In the next few days, I will make the written version of the course available on line. Will start to shoot the vids mid July if I have the fabrric..


That is a great news Taigu!
Lets start this exciting new adventure all together!

gassho,
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Seona on Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:32 pm

I am very much looking forward to participating this year as well.

:)

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby JohnsonCM on Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:43 pm

I am greatful for the opportunity to participate in Jukai this time around. Gassho Jundo and Taigu.
Gassho,

Christopher
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Taylor on Wed Jun 30, 2010 10:15 pm

Again, many gasshos and thanks to Jundo, Taigu, and everyone else participating! If I post too many pictures, let me know :P here's the latest Rakusu update. Straps and squares unattached for now, bag is next on the list to sew. I've found a deep passion for sewing whilst doing this. As frustrating as it is, I do truly enjoy it.

Just for a bit of irony. While sewing the broken pine needle, my sewing needle snapped off inside. I laughed for a bit at the literalness of the situation, only to find out it was a bit of a task to remove the other half :roll:

Gassho
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby chicanobudista on Thu Jul 01, 2010 12:30 am

so....where does a n00bie start? . . . . . :|
%paz y justicia%
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Taylor on Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:21 am

chicanobudista wrote:so....where does a n00bie start? . . . . . :|

Right where you are :D Just like everyone!
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby tedmac on Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:59 am

Looking forward to participating!
-Ted
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Jinyu on Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:15 pm

Taylor wrote: If I post too many pictures, let me know :P


Au contraire! We love having many many pictures! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Nice work by the way! the stitches are a bit different but perfectly imperfect like all of ours!

Gassho,
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby chicanobudista on Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:15 am

Taylor wrote:
chicanobudista wrote:so....where does a n00bie start? . . . . . :|

Right where you are :D Just like everyone!


Where?
%paz y justicia%
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby ghop on Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:55 am

chicanobudista wrote:Taylor wrote:
chicanobudista wrote:
so....where does a n00bie start? . . . . .
Right where you are Just like everyone!

Where?


:lol:

Seriously though, where? I'd like to know too.

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Kyrillos on Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:22 am

Hi Erik and ghop,

Look on this very same board section at the 'topic" called "Sew Along With Taigu". All the instructions for rakusu are there with a series of videos on "how to".

Gassho,

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby chicanobudista on Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:29 am

Kyrillos wrote:Hi Erik and ghop,

Look on this very same board section at the 'topic" called "Sew Along With Taigu". All the instructions for rakusu are there with a series of videos on "how to".

Gassho,

Seishin Kyrill


So. We start with the rakusus?
%paz y justicia%
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Taylor on Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:48 pm

chicanobudista wrote:
Kyrillos wrote:Hi Erik and ghop,

Look on this very same board section at the 'topic" called "Sew Along With Taigu". All the instructions for rakusu are there with a series of videos on "how to".

Gassho,

Seishin Kyrill


So. We start with the rakusus?


Actually the official sewing doesn't start for a few months. I got a head start on mine while I'm home for summer vacation (no fancy iron and such at school). I'll still be sewing with you guys thought! little bits and pieces have to wait for a while :)
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Kyrillos on Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:16 pm

Erik,

I thought that you and ghop were asking about where to start with making the rakusu. That can be started any time, I believe, since the instructions are already done. The other part of Jukai preparation, studying the precepts, will start later this month, if I recall correctly what Jundo said.

Gassho,

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby chicanobudista on Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:17 pm

Kyrillos wrote:Erik,

I thought that you and ghop were asking about where to start with making the rakusu. That can be started any time, I believe, since the instructions are already done. The other part of Jukai preparation, studying the precepts, will start later this month, if I recall correctly what Jundo said.

Gassho,

Seishin Kyrill


No. No. The question was for this thread. If I am n00bie that has been practicing and feel ready to take part in the jukai....where do I start? I missed it last time. Also, on the rakusu, I'll try to follow it. I got lost last time since I am not much of a handy crafts person. :|
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Seona on Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:39 pm

chicanobudista wrote:No. No. The question was for this thread. If I am n00bie that has been practicing and feel ready to take part in the jukai....where do I start? I missed it last time. Also, on the rakusu, I'll try to follow it. I got lost last time since I am not much of a handy crafts person. :|


I am new to Jukai as well. From what I understand, based on observing the Jukai activities from previous years, is that we start with Precepts Study - the reading and discussing of the book, The Mind of Clover, and other online readings related to Jukai and each of the precepts. Jundo starts the discussion threads and we join in. This will begin in September.

It is recommended that Treeleaf members who sign up for Jukai also participate in Ango, which begins in August. Jundo will most likely give more information about that later.

You can state your intention to participate in Jukai here in this thread.

I hope my response was helpful.

:)

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby chicanobudista on Sat Jul 03, 2010 12:08 am

Seona wrote:[
I hope my response was helpful.


IT WAS! :D

My main roadblock as it was last year is the sewing. I can take the sitting and the walking...oh...but the sewing...I am soooo bad at it.
Need a Jukai buddy or mentor to help me on the path. :mrgreen:

Thanks Seona!

Jundo--I do want to take part in the jukai.
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby fkwan on Sun Jul 04, 2010 7:33 pm

Hi,

I have lurked here on and off for about a year. I have been practicing for 30 years without teacher or sangha. I have used your timers for zazen and I am slowly getting into your zazenkai videos. I really respect what you are doing here. You are helping so many people who can't get to a "real" sangha develop a significant and real practice. I would love to participate in Jukai -- the only problem is the rakusu. I don't mind sewing or ironing, but cutting, measuring and following patterns are not part of my brain (they are missing along with balancing, game playing and bike riding :( ). I hope I will be able to follow along with the video. Is it OK to put the fabric in an embroidery frame to sew, or is part of the suffering balancing it on one's lap while one pricks one's fingers? :lol:

I took 5 precepts in about 1996 through the wonderful folks at the Zen Buddhist Order of Hsuyun and was given the name Zheng Dao, which I believe is Shindo in Japanese, and gave myself the other 5 for the total of 10 Grave Precepts.

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Taigu on Sun Jul 04, 2010 10:56 pm

hi f. kwan zheng dao,

Not part and parcel of the suffering. If you really want, you can use a frame.

Wecome and thank you for your practice.


gassho


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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Silva on Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:04 am

Need a Jukai buddy or mentor to help me on the path


I'll be able to study the precepts and sew the rakusu, but fear I shan't be able to participate in the retreat and 100 days because of my life's circumstances, even the 4 hour zazenkai is impossible for me at present, I therefore will not be able partake in the jukai ceremony next year. The thought crossed my mind that perhaps I could donate my rakusu to someone who had difficulties in sewing ?

gassho,

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Jundo on Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:30 am

Silva wrote:
Need a Jukai buddy or mentor to help me on the path


I'll be able to study the precepts and sew the rakusu, but fear I shan't be able to participate in the retreat and 100 days because of my life's circumstances, even the 4 hour zazenkai is impossible for me at present, I therefore will not be able partake in the jukai ceremony next year. The thought crossed my mind that perhaps I could donate my rakusu to someone who had difficulties in sewing ?

gassho,

Sylvie


Hi Silva,

If there is truly need, than "life" is our 100 days Ango and 2-day retreat. So, please do not get caught in thinking like that, or give up on participating. Please talk to Taigu or me about how, if life is making you not have the time, then life can be the place for your "retreat".

I hope that you will still consider to join in the Jukai if you wish.

Gassho, Jundo

PS - The foregoing is not meant as an excuse to not do so for other folks who can (and are able) to participate in the Ango and Retreat. It is meant for those who truly must deal with life's events during those times.
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby chicanobudista on Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:58 pm

Silva wrote:
Need a Jukai buddy or mentor to help me on the path


I'll be able to study the precepts and sew the rakusu, but fear I shan't be able to participate in the retreat and 100 days because of my life's circumstances, even the 4 hour zazenkai is impossible for me at present, I therefore will not be able partake in the jukai ceremony next year. The thought crossed my mind that perhaps I could donate my rakusu to someone who had difficulties in sewing ?

gassho,

Sylvie


Thanks. :D Or....you could be my rakusu mentor. :mrgreen:
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby mhoke46375 on Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:14 pm

I have ordered the book too and hope to participate
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Silva on Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:47 pm

If there is truly need, than "life" is our 100 days Ango and 2-day retreat.


Thank-you, I then will be glad to participate the best I can and share this experience with other Trealeaf members. This participation with the Sangha is a very important turnpoint for me.
I'm preparing some material for the rakusu. I have one of my grandma's fine coton sheets which is similar quality to the shirt coton mentioned in the rakusu instructions. I'm going to dye it with leaves from trees and shrubs I've gathered from my garden. I shall be testing a new preparation so as to hopefully get a dark shade, but it may not work as well as I hope. Would muddy green be Ok? It may be blotchy also!
I'll post pictures of the result for approval. Iv'e already used dye plants on wool, silk and linen yarns and they turned out great but were always mid tones.

gassho

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby fkwan on Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:02 pm

I just bought the book.

I also watched about 6 of the rakusu videos. I think I must have missed something, like, how much fabric does one buy? I have a vague idea from the instructions how many pieces to cut, but it would be very helpful in future updates to speak to the totally neurologically challenged, thusly: "Cut out the first cho whatever the measurements are, like so. Then draw a 2.5 cm line here," etc. etc. , and do this for each piece, after which show each piece assembled in sequence so the total idiot (moi) can make sure I'm doing it right.

I'm going to the fabric store this week. This should be interesting as I've never been in a fabric store. It has always been my fervent wish that Zen would modernise itself to something like black surgical scrub tops with embroidered pockets, so I could avoid having to do something like this. :D

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby chicanobudista on Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:05 pm

fkwan wrote:I just bought the book.

I also watched about 6 of the rakusu videos. I think I must have missed something, like, how much fabric does one buy? I have a vague idea from the instructions how many pieces to cut, but it would be very helpful in future updates to speak to the totally neurologically challenged, thusly: "Cut out the first cho whatever the measurements are, like so. Then draw a 2.5 cm line here," etc. etc. , and do this for each piece, after which show each piece assembled in sequence so the total idiot (moi) can make sure I'm doing it right.


I second that. I am a very by the number list kindaguy. :mrgreen:
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby fkwan on Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:04 pm

Erik:

Talvez puedamos seguir el camino numerado juntos. :lol:

Sorry for my terrible Spanish, I learned it on the Internet, like my exécrable French, appalling German, embarrassing Portuguese and almost nonexistent Swedish.

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby chicanobudista on Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:25 pm

fkwan wrote:Erik:

Talvez puedamos seguir el camino numerado juntos. :lol:

Sorry for my terrible Spanish, I learned it on the Internet, like my exécrable French, appalling German, embarrassing Portuguese and almost nonexistent Swedish.


No hay problema. :mrgreen:
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Nigel99 on Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:07 pm

I will be following with the reading and study. I think this will help me to develop a better commitment to participate next time.

Best wishes to all of you this time round.

Gassho Nigel.
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Dosho on Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:22 pm

Hi all,

A lot the information that folks are asking for is contained within the older threads of this forum...if you just take some time to look a lot will be answered. I would also be more than willing to offer anyone assistance wading through the process, especially anyone who doesn't think they'll participate solely because of sewing the rakusu. I'm not as talented or wise as Taigu or Shohei, but would be very sad to see anyone not take part because of sewing.

But if there is one piece of wisdom I can offer, it is this: SLOW DOWN!! :) And I mean that in the nicest way possible. ;)

Working through these challenges and having patience is part of what you may find while undertaking the journey...do not underestimate how much you can change and grow through this process. And I say this not to seem all high and mighty like I know one tiny thing more than anyone else, but because I was doing the same thing two years ago...and in two years of sewing I have found that there is much to be learned when we are scared of what is before us and move ahead anyway.

Please keep this in mind or completely disregard it. :P

Gassho,
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby chicanobudista on Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:44 pm

Dosho wrote:Hi all,

A lot the information that folks are asking for is contained within the older threads of this forum...if you just take some time to look a lot will be answered. I would also be more than willing to offer anyone assistance wading through the process, especially anyone who doesn't think they'll participate solely because of sewing the rakusu. I'm not as talented or wise as Taigu or Shohei, but would be very sad to see anyone not take part because of sewing.



Wading through threads are hard to follow. For practical purposes, maybe a new thread for rakusu n00bies where we can go and ask a question(s) or a simple pdf/txt file with a beginner's how-to for the rakusu.

Ya know with the Catholics you only need to sprinkle a bit of water in the forehead to join the fun.... :twisted:
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby chicanobudista on Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:47 pm

%paz y justicia%
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby dumm on Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:44 am

Looking forward to following along with this years Jukai!

Gassho,
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby chicanobudista on Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:43 pm

...maybe we can have a live web feed where folks can follow a rakusu sewing class...step by step?
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby kathryn Clare on Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:20 am

Hello Jundo, Taigu and friends,

I would dearly love to undertake the precepts this year with everyone at Treeleaf.

I do, however, have one question:

I've been lurking around for approximately a year now. I follow the video blogs, catch the Saturday sittings on a Sunday morning when the world is still asleep, and read the forum daily. I registered with the intention of taking part more fully in the discussions etc, but time is in short supply and generally only allows for reading. Besides, I don't really have anything interesting to say. I consider both Jundo and Taigu my 'Teachers', although I've never felt the need to contact either directly.

My question then, is would an aspirant be expected to participate more fully in the actual life of the Sangha as a pre-requisite for undertaking the precepts? I followed last years pretty closely, so realise that there is a certain minimum commitment in terms of Skype discussions etc, but more than that I don't feel I realistically achieve.

With thanks and metta,

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Jundo on Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:42 am

kathryn Clare wrote:Hello Jundo, Taigu and friends,

I would dearly love to undertake the precepts this year with everyone at Treeleaf.

I do, however, have one question:

I've been lurking around for approximately a year now. I follow the video blogs, catch the Saturday sittings on a Sunday morning when the world is still asleep, and read the forum daily. I registered with the intention of taking part more fully in the discussions etc, but time is in short supply and generally only allows for reading. Besides, I don't really have anything interesting to say. I consider both Jundo and Taigu my 'Teachers', although I've never felt the need to contact either directly.

My question then, is would an aspirant be expected to participate more fully in the actual life of the Sangha as a pre-requisite for undertaking the precepts? I followed last years pretty closely, so realise that there is a certain minimum commitment in terms of Skype discussions etc, but more than that I don't feel I realistically achieve.

With thanks and metta,

Kathryn Clare


Hi Kathyryn,

Well, it sounds like you are participating pretty fully! Thank you for being there and sitting with us. I see you over in the corner of the Zendo. :)

The most important part of the Jukai is learning something about the Precepts, trying to incorporate into our life their message of avoiding harm. We will have some short readings posted each week, and it would be nice if you could find time for those, and to reflect on them and how each fits into your life. Also, we do ask that a Rakusu be sewn ... unless there is real hardship or impossibility that prevents that.

Would that be okay?

Gassho, Jundo
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby TwoDots on Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:47 pm

Looking forward to sitting / studying with y'all for Ango & Jukai :D

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby buddhistmama on Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:16 pm

Sean and I are both very excited to be studying and sitting with you all!
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Silva on Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:33 pm

Well a mixture of walnut, birch, oak and ash leaves have produced a greyish olive green with a few blotches of course!

Image

The picture shows a greyer colour I hope that's dark enough, heres' another,

Image

Taigu and Jundo will this be ok to use ?

gassho,

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Jundo on Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:03 pm

Silva wrote: Taigu and Jundo will this be ok to use ?

gassho,

Sylvie


Looks beautiful to me. I think I can see an image of the face of Buddha in some of those splotches and wrinkles! :)
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Taigu on Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:20 pm

Hi all,

Wading through threads are hard to follow. For practical purposes, maybe a new thread for rakusu n00bies where we can go and ask a question(s) or a simple pdf/txt file with a beginner's how-to for the rakusu.


or

...maybe we can have a live web feed where folks can follow a rakusu sewing class...step by step?


Thank you for your interesting suggestions. I kind of understand the difficulties of starting sewing: I was not born with a needle in my hands...
It is part of the process to meet resistance, not the lack of help or inadequate wording or instructions of teachers, but our OWN resistance which is a byproduct of our beliefs. No live classes, or ready-made thread will do. Maybe, I should also buy a plane ticket and come to you to show you how to do it :wink: ???

These days, people get it too easy. In a not so distant past, wading through mountains, walking weeks and months, begging food and bowing in the mud had to be done and experienced to sew a single kesa and study with a teacher.

We are obviously too addicted to a mouse click.

That's all I have to say. It is a very good test at the very gate of our true self.


So...just get on with it

gassho


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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Taylor on Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:13 pm

Silva wrote:Well a mixture of walnut, birch, oak and ash leaves have produced a greyish olive green with a few blotches of course!

Image

The picture shows a greyer colour I hope that's dark enough, heres' another,

Image

Taigu and Jundo will this be ok to use ?

gassho,

Sylvie


Sylvie the colors are beautiful! If you have time, PM me please to let me know how that was accomplished! I was looking up a variety of natural dyes for the scraps of white, green, and red I have laying around and I could never get the color so even and uniform (much less to stick after running it under cold water :D )

Many gasshos for your skill.
The guy who tried using coffee only to get blotchy fabric
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby chicanobudista on Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:24 pm

Taigu wrote:
These days, people get it too easy. In a not so distant past, wading through mountains, walking weeks and months, begging food and bowing in the mud had to be done and experienced to sew a single kesa and study with a teacher.

We are obviously too addicted to a mouse click.

That's all I have to say. It is a very good test at the very gate of our true self.


So...just get on with it


Is not being addictive or not addictive.
Or walking through mud or not through mud.
I don't have any resistance to do it.
I'll send y'all a napkin if I have to.
But. You are not asking for a napkin and y'all have a set of videos on how to do a rakusu which means you want to do a rakusu.

All I'm asking is for help and giving you a suggestion.

You can say, Yes. You can say, No. You can say, Maybe.

You see too much into my humble words.

Maybe, I should also buy a plane ticket and come to you to show you how to do it ???


Sure. Why not? We are numberless, right? :twisted:

Anywho...other zendos have rakusu sewing circles/groups where folks come together and help each other. Maybe that is something we could do.
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Silva on Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:44 pm

think I can see an image of the face of Buddha in some of those splotches and wrinkles!

Oh dear, how many eons in hell will it cost me to iron and cut up Buddha's face ?
PM me please to let me know how that was accomplished!

I'll need a little time to find out a few termes to translate the technique and materials into english...soon ok ?

So the fabric is ready, the book is at hand, what follows is to be done together ?
So I wait in company of Keizan.

gassho,

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby jrh001 on Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:29 am

chicanobudista wrote:...Anywho...other zendos have rakusu sewing circles/groups where folks come together and help each other. Maybe that is something we could do.

Hi Erik,

That happens here too. Last year's discussion thread is full of questions and answers.

At the beginning I found that (as usual) I was overthinking the whole thing. All I really had to do was collect what's required and get started:

* Print off the PDF, get some material, needles, thread and scissors.
* Practice stitching on a scrap of material. When unsure, watch the video.
* Practice as long as you like, there's no hurry.
* Do some cutting. It's hard to be very precise but the material gets folded and the pattern is very forgiving.
* Do some ironing.
* Sew two pieces together... (post a pic if reassurance is needed) and on it goes.

I'm sure if you get stuck at any stage, there's heaps of help and support available here. That was my experience anyway.

gassho,

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Taylor on Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:20 am

Hi, too, Erik,

I know many have already posted this but let me reiterate, sometimes it's better to just end up with a lop-sided napkin! One of the best ways to start would be to just use some paper with the dimensions and glue/tape them together to get a hang of the stitching and folding. Truly, you would be surprised how forgiving the whole design is, many of my crooked edges were well hidden by the folding :D

It's all in good, serious, fun. I, unfortunately, did not take enough time to laugh at myself whilst sewing. Much too serious. Too many stitches redone. Too much perfectionism, but that is part of being human, I suppose. Dive in, you'll be surprised to see that the water wasn't as deep as it looked from the shore. And everyone is always here to help!

Gassho (P.s. hope that book I sent arrived)
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby chicanobudista on Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:37 am

John...Taylor...Thanks. Let me get my swimsuit.
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Ready..... :mrgreen:
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Stephanie on Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:15 am

Just now saw this thread. I definitely want to participate, and look forward to doing so.

Last sangha I sat with regularly had sangha members who were doing the jukai create the rakusu from scraps of fabric collected from others and/or items that were important to the person, such as a garment from the person's mother... I really liked this idea, and plan to do the same whenever I start working on the rakusu.

I will follow this thread for pointers about when to start engaging in various parts of the process... I hope that knowing what to do doesn't require digging through the forum archives and finding the right thread from last year! :wink:
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby anista on Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:24 am

Oh, is this the official sign-up list for jukai?

I definitely want to participate.
May all beings be free from suffering.
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby kfrance0 on Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:18 am

Last year, I didn't feel the time was right for me, but this year I'd like to join in the jukai as well. I've got my materials from last year--the book and the fabric for the rakusu. It's a great opportunity for learning and growing.
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Unmon on Mon Jul 19, 2010 1:31 am

count me in (again)
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Nick B on Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:05 am

I would be happy to participate in Jukai.
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby JoeTurner on Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:25 pm

HI,
I look forward to starting Jukai studies and the ceremony in January. My only worry is that unless I can find a job soon I could have trouble buying the book let alone getting on Skype. Could this be a problem?
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Jundo on Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:38 pm

JoeTurner wrote:HI,
I look forward to starting Jukai studies and the ceremony in January. My only worry is that unless I can find a job soon I could have trouble buying the book let alone getting on Skype. Could this be a problem?


Hi Joe

If it is really a hardship, we can help you get the book. Just send me a message. We've all been between jobs sometimes.

Skype is free. You need a camera to send your image, but not to watch it and join in the ceremony.

Gassho, Jundo
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby cyril on Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:11 pm

Is it too early to start buying the materials for the rakusu?
These are a couple of my websites. I'm into working out and eating healthfully.
http://myshakeology.com/esuite/home/getupnmove
http://beachbodycoach.com/getupnmove
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby JoeTurner on Sun Jul 25, 2010 8:39 pm

Hi,
Thanks for the speedy reply Jundo. I find that most comforting, lets hope I get a job before that.
In Gassho
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Jundo on Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:36 am

cyril wrote:Is it too early to start buying the materials for the rakusu?


Hi Cyril,

Let me answer in case Taigu does not spot this. Yes, you can buy the material now. All the information on what materials, colors, amount etc. are in the Sewing area.

It is best if folks can all sew together, so not jump the gun. Also, it is not something to "rush and get done" nor to "dawdle and delay" without diligence. So, the time allotted is sufficient ... but the sewing must keep moving along, stitch by stitch by stitch.

Gassho, Jundo
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby cyril on Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:45 am

Excellent!
These are a couple of my websites. I'm into working out and eating healthfully.
http://myshakeology.com/esuite/home/getupnmove
http://beachbodycoach.com/getupnmove
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Unmon on Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:27 am

i just found a copy of "mind of clover" (the book we use for jukai precept study) at a used book store. i already have a copy, but i picked it up assuming someone on here would need it. it was pretty cheap, so i'd glady send it to whomever needs it (free of charge). given that we live in a conditioned world, here are my conditions:
1) you are participating in jukai this time around
2) it won't cost me over $5 (us) to ship it to you
3) and obviously, the 1st person contacting me who appears to meet conditions 1&2 gets the book...

maybe there should be another contingency here....

jundo, are we using aitken roshi's book again???

(note: the book appears to be the 1984 pressing, and has some underlining and circling in red ink...in very good overall condition though. looks like it was read 1/2 times as the marking stops halfway through the book - otherwise, appears like new. why am i trying to "sell" you on a free book???)

PM ME IF YOU'RE INTERESTED
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Jundo on Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:05 pm

mahakalaugh wrote:jundo, are we using aitken roshi's book again???



Yes we are!
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Don on Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:46 pm

I am looking forward to this opportunity, as well.

Gassho,
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby da5id on Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:43 pm

Ooops! I just saw this post today. I'd love to join the preparatory teachings and the Jukai ceremony.

I hope I'm still on time. :)

Now it's time to remove weeds (real ones) from my garden, with the acceptance of my non-acceptance of how hot it today :|
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby AtomicSpud on Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:28 pm

And I.
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Nigel99 on Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:21 pm

Well contrary to my previous post I now find myself in possession of both a copy of Mind of Clover and material for a rakasu!!
So instead of sitting by the pond I am going to jump in!!

Look forward to joining in!!

Gassho
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Rob_Heathen on Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:57 am

Looking very forward to joining in. Sewing here in Afghanistan may prove to be a bit of a challenge, but I am looking forward to trying. Anyone have some scraps of material that they would like to send would be greatly appreciated. I haven't purchased anything yet, I imagine shipping could take a couple of weeks...guess I need to get busy. I think I will be using stacks of books and time in place of an iron 8) This should be interesting...
Maha, if no one else has taken you up on that book I would be forever indebted to you for it as I have been procrastinating buying it. :)


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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Shohei on Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:39 pm

Rob_Heathen wrote:Looking very forward to joining in. Sewing here in Afghanistan may prove to be a bit of a challenge, but I am looking forward to trying. Anyone have some scraps of material that they would like to send would be greatly appreciated. I haven't purchased anything yet, I imagine shipping could take a couple of weeks...guess I need to get busy. I think I will be using stacks of books and time in place of an iron 8) This should be interesting...
Maha, if no one else has taken you up on that book I would be forever indebted to you for it as I have been procrastinating buying it. :)


Rob

Hey Rob, can you use any of the material there on base? I have a ton of blue broad cloth left and id be more than happy to send it to ya (pm, email or skype me ur info!) if its hot you could use a flat bit of metal of some kind, and a bit of water to spring on the material...use the hot metal bit (that previously had been sitting in the sun and use that to flatten it out. let it dry and bobs ur uncle.

Gassho
Shohei

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Rob_Heathen on Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:37 pm

Shohei wrote:
see ya @ the teaparty?


With bells on, as you Canucks say...come to think of it...I know lots of non-Canucks that say that too...Anyway, I'll be there.

And thank you again, Shohei, you are great. ;)

Gassho,
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby JessieR on Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:33 pm

Well, it looks like this year is finally the time for me. I will be participating in Jukai this time around!

Now, if only I can take more time to participate more in the forums - I am such a horrible lurker...

-Jess
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby forestree on Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:56 pm

I have been thinking about whether participating in the Jukai or not for some time and doubts always arise. I think it's a big commitment and worry about my lack of time or my ability to be constistent with my practice at a time when my life is completely chaotic and I'm unable to do much planning at all. Then there are more worries and fears about failing and feeling guilty for not beeing able to fulfill my commitment. But deep inside I know that in my heart I do want to take part in this journey, whatever the destination may be and even if eventually there might be none. So I'd like to take part in the precepts study and I'll do my best to keep up with the rakusu sewing lessons. I hope that I'll be able to participate in the Jukai too, even though I'm a restaurant owner (at least for now) so the two day retreat will be impossible to be done all at once but I might be able to split it according to my possibilities. I know it's not quite the same thing but at least I can try to do my best with what I have right now, which is...a quite messed up life. :?
Also if I order the book today I guess it would take about 3 weeks for it to get here, I hope that would not be too late, I'll do my homework and catch up as soon as it arrives.

Really looking forward to sharing this experience with you all.

Francesca
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Dosho on Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:53 pm

forestree wrote:I have been thinking about whether participating in the Jukai or not for some time and doubts always arise. I think it's a big commitment and worry about my lack of time or my ability to be constistent with my practice at a time when my life is completely chaotic and I'm unable to do much planning at all.


Hi Francesca,

Sounds to me like it's the perfect time for a big commitment! Actually, any time is a good time...but especially so when life is choatic and we can't seem to plan anything more than a day, or even an hour, ahead. And what's the worst that happens? You "fail"? That in itself is something to be experienced and cherished...so, just go for it. The great thing about Treeleaf is that whether we succeed or fall flat on our faces, we'll do it together. ;)

Gassho,
Dosho
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby forestree on Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:39 am

Thanks for your words Dosho, I also feel that this is the perfect moment. I've been procrastinating too long, now it's time to actually DO something instead of thinking about it. Being afraid of failure is something I have dealt with during all my life and at times I got completely stuck because of it. Zen practice is helping me in this sense as I can now observe all these thoughts about failure and my reactions to them and I can at least make a decision not to listen to them anymore no matter how scared I might be. If then I fall flat on my face, then it's ok too, I'm willing to take that chance. :wink: Even more so now having the support of all you people here at Treeleaf.

Gassho,
Francesca
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Jundo on Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:18 am

forestree wrote:Thanks for your words Dosho, I also feel that this is the perfect moment. I've been procrastinating too long, now it's time to actually DO something instead of thinking about it. Being afraid of failure is something I have dealt with during all my life and at times I got completely stuck because of it. Zen practice is helping me in this sense as I can now observe all these thoughts about failure and my reactions to them and I can at least make a decision not to listen to them anymore no matter how scared I might be. If then I fall flat on my face, then it's ok too, I'm willing to take that chance. :wink: Even more so now having the support of all you people here at Treeleaf.

Gassho,
Francesca


Sewing that Rakusu ... we sometimes find that we are sewing back together a broken heart a shattered dream ... a life that we thought of as a torn cloth ... with goals and dreams that seem off course ...
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Dday on Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:08 am

Thought on this quite a bit, as to be sure it was right but my brain has done all it can do, so I shall follow the heart. Along with Ango I would like to also join you all in Jukai if I may.
Gassho ~ Dave.
The more I learn, The less I know.
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Peter on Tue Aug 17, 2010 5:27 am

I am looking forward to this commitment. I was wary of some scheduling conflicts, but as long as Zazenkai are available in recorded form, I should be able to participate fully (just a little late) :)

Gassho to all --
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Shonin on Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:09 am

WOOT! JUKAI TIME!!! I'm going to go the non-official participant route this time tho. Good luck all!!
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby CoreyW on Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:14 am

This year is going to be the right one for me. I am excited to join in on jukai with all of you this year! Also i will try not to just lurk on the forums like i usually do. :D

Gassho,
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Jikyo on Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:19 pm

Hi everyone,

I'll be participating in Jukai again this year, but instead of sewing another rakusu, I'll be sewing the bag for the rakusu I sewed last year, which is still not done! :shock:

I'll also be happy to offer sewing support and/or advice for anyone who needs it.

Gassho,
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Don on Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:10 pm

I am not able to reach any page by way of this link, posted above. Is there another means?

http://treeleafzen.blogspot.com/2007/03 ... there.html

Thanks very much.
Gassho,
Don
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby JoeTurner on Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:15 pm

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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby JoeTurner on Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:35 pm

HI,
Is it fated or what?
I was up at the Buddhist Society for a free seminar on Zen Brushwork, most enjoyable. Whilst there I looked through the library Zen shelves and found 'Mind of Clover' which I promptly borrowed. I now have a month, or maybe two if no-one else requests it ,to read and digest. :D
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Daibh on Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:32 pm

I have made clear my commitment to take part in this years Ango over on the appropriate thread.

I would like to highlight my interest and commitment to studying for and taking part in the forth coming Jukai also.

Deep Gasho.

Dave.
Autumn Ango Blog 2010:
http://autumnango.blogspot.com/

My poetry blog - Subtle Drops
http://subtledrops.blogspot.com/
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby CoreyW on Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:29 pm

My book came in the mail today and i got all my sewing supplies for the rakusu. : ) I was just wanting to make sure that the color of my fabric is a dark enough green though.

Gassho,
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby CoreyW on Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:30 pm

Hmm. The image i posted of the fabric is actually a bit lighter than it really is. It is sort of a hunter's green.
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Taigu on Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:36 am

Hi CoreyW,

The colour is just fine. Don't worry.

gassho

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Taigu, teacher at Treeleaf Sangha, was born in 1964, started Zazen early and received Shukke Tokudo in 1983 at age 18 from Rev. Mokusho Zeisler of the Deshimaru Lineage. Received Dharma Transmission from Chodo Cross in 2003. Now resides in Osaka, Japan.
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Jinyu on Sat Aug 28, 2010 6:27 pm

Hi everyone!
It was so obvious to me that I'll do Jukai again this year that I didn't even put my name on the list!
I can't wait to share the Ango, zazenkai, sewing and Rohatsu Sesshin with all of you!
This year I'll be sewing a 7 stripes kesa, (had to take it from the start again because I made a mistake with the measurements, but Taigu just helped me with this!).
So, I hope we all will share and participate to the precept study and sewing practice!
If someone needs some advice for sewing Rakusu I can help a bit because I've done some, but I'm not a reference as Taigu, Shohei, Dosho or Jikyo (who did a beautifull rakusu last year! I remember he was perfect really :shock: , even if it is not a matter of being beautiful or not... :wink: ).

Anyway, I hope to practice with all of you again!

gassho,
Luis/Jinyu
"Bussho Kapila Jodo Maghada Seppo Harana Nyumetsu Kuchira"
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Daibh on Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:05 pm

RE: SEWING A RAKUSU

Dear Sangha,

as I wish to take part in the forthcoming Jukai here at Treeleaf Zendo I am of course keen in undertaking the sewing of a Rakusu.

One problem, though:

I am literally broke.

I do not have the funds to purchase materials for the project.

I have a needle and a thread but that is about the size of it.

Is it silly to consider using fabric from old clothing? :roll:

Thank you in advance for any hints or tips regarding this rather poor practitioners prediciment.
Autumn Ango Blog 2010:
http://autumnango.blogspot.com/

My poetry blog - Subtle Drops
http://subtledrops.blogspot.com/
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Dosho on Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:57 pm

Daibh wrote:Is it silly to consider using fabric from old clothing?


Absolutely not! In fact rags are usually considered quite appropriate. The only issue I am aware of is Taigu's general advice that working with old material can be difficult for a newbie sewer and you may end up with a number of repair jobs. But all that is good practice (where have I heard that saying before?) So, for newbies it's usually suggested to use something new-er, but even then it is ok to use a bed sheet or an old shirt you don't wear anymore. Anything can be used really, just not too thick!

Taigu and Shohei will undoubtedly have more to say, but please do not be discouraged!

Gassho,
Dosho
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Sven on Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:19 pm

I also intend to take part in this year's Jukai. I look forward to deepening my understanding of the precepts (and digging out my rusty sewing experience).
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby kathryn Clare on Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:46 am

"Is it silly to consider using fabric from old clothing?"

If you use old 100% cotton shirts, these are as fine as any of the fabric sold specifically for needlecrafts.

I'm (hopefully) at a quilt show next weekend and could pick you up a couple of meters of calico if you like. You could dye it with old, used tea-bags to make a darker brown. If memory serves, you don't need a mordant for that, but I'd have to check.

With Metta, Kathryn
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Daibh on Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:44 pm

Dosho wrote:
Daibh wrote:Is it silly to consider using fabric from old clothing?


Absolutely not! In fact rags are usually considered quite appropriate.


Thank you.

Your post has helped a great deal.

:)

Gassho,
Dave.
Autumn Ango Blog 2010:
http://autumnango.blogspot.com/

My poetry blog - Subtle Drops
http://subtledrops.blogspot.com/
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Taylor on Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:50 pm

Daibh wrote:
Dosho wrote:
Daibh wrote:Is it silly to consider using fabric from old clothing?


Absolutely not! In fact rags are usually considered quite appropriate.


Thank you.

Your post has helped a great deal.


One more note: If you find the fabric stretchy, be very careful. After sewing one rakusu I decided to cut the material for another from old T-Shirts. Long story short: Very stretchy fabric makes messier sewing. If using old clothes I would reccomend dress shirt or dress pant style. Much stiffer.

Then again, rags are just rags :D

Gassho
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Taigu on Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:48 am

Hi all,

Dosho is dead right, if you want to avoid mending and fixing, go for new fabric. But according to tradition picking up old and shabby fabric is what should be done ( at the time, monks could not afford buying new fabric). The most important is not to be attached to the quality and color of the fabric.

Yes, Taylor is dead right too, T-shirt fabric is too stretchy and very hard to sew.

The best fabric is cotton or linen. Go to a shop and don't pick someting to thick ( layers of fabric does help the neddlwork...). Don't pick up pitch black fabric ( not the right shade in the nyohoe tradition). If you have doubt about colour, you may post a pic and ask me.

good luck, bon courage!!!


gassho

Taigu
Taigu, teacher at Treeleaf Sangha, was born in 1964, started Zazen early and received Shukke Tokudo in 1983 at age 18 from Rev. Mokusho Zeisler of the Deshimaru Lineage. Received Dharma Transmission from Chodo Cross in 2003. Now resides in Osaka, Japan.
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Re: IT'S JUKAI TIME .... 2010!

Postby Daibh on Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:28 pm

Cheers Kathyrn, Taylor and Taigu.

I shall go through my wardrobe and find something suitable...

...most likely canditates are a dark maroon shirt and a fawny brown shirt.

Are either of these colours workable?

...Suppose I could always dye the rakusu after it's finished. :roll:

I'm such an amatuer. :D
Autumn Ango Blog 2010:
http://autumnango.blogspot.com/

My poetry blog - Subtle Drops
http://subtledrops.blogspot.com/
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Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:15 am
Location: Scotland

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