In Praise of Boredom and Frustration.

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In Praise of Boredom and Frustration.

Postby HezB on Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:30 am

I'm currently feeling quite bored and frustrated in Zazen.

I think this is due to me realising that some of my preconceived ideas about it, and what it will do for me, are just bull poop. Its like I've hit a little seam of mental/physical resistance.

I currently see Zazen a bit like a boring university lecture that I just know I have to go to but am not overly happy about. The frustration is just a result of that little part of me that had my 'enlightenment' all worked out in advance not getting its sweet, sweet makey-uppey apples.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm good with this. I'm grateful for it.

This is how it has been going: Boredom and frustration arise when I sit, I get the physical feelings in my stomach which tell me I'm bored and frustrated. Then I start thinking the thoughts:- "Oh, what a waste of time", "I want to move a bit, I NEED to move a bit, I deserve to move a bit", "am I doing it right" etc etc... I generally no longer move though, maybe only to straighten my back.

Sometimes such feelings and thoughts last for quite a time but, almost invariably, I'm good with them by the end of practice; everything finds space and we don't bother each other really. So, by that time, boredom may be there, but I'm not really being bored if you get my drift. This seems like an important process for, after tonight's particularly boring sitting, I felt that everything really was contained in the action of 'just sitting', that it could swallow everything up and make it real.

Regards,

Harry.

PS. I think I'll post this on my blog so you can let rip anonymously at how crappy your Zazen is without fear of being exposed as a Zen fraud. :)

http://bodhiarmour.blogspot.com/
Last edited by HezB on Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
Shobogenzo study blog: http://thinknonthinking.blogspot.com/

Please note that the above blog is merely the assertions of a rank novice offered in some sincerity.

...And this is just nuts:

http://bodhiarmour.blogspot.com/
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Re: In Praise of Boredom and Frustration.

Postby will on Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:38 am

I felt that everything really was contained in the action of \'just sitting\', that it could swallow everything up and make it real.


Absolutely. It\'s vast. Micro and macrocosmic beyond belief (put that on a flyer)

My thing this morning was nodding off a bit. Had to make a bit of an effort to straighten and open the eyes.

G,W

To save all sentient beings, though beings are numberless.
To penetrate reality, though reality is boundless.
To transform all delusion, though delusions are immeasurable.
To attain the enlightened way, a way non-attainable.
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Re: In Praise of Boredom and Frustration.

Postby will on Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:44 am

I think this is due to me realising that some of my preconceived ideas about it, and what it will do for me, are just bull poop. Its like I\'ve hit a little seam of mental/physical resistance.


Yep. We can really let it fly over our heads very easily and chase after it I think.

Quote Kodo again \"Good for nothing\" :)

You can\'t try to understand it or have ideas about it. It is what it is.


G,W

To save all sentient beings, though beings are numberless.
To penetrate reality, though reality is boundless.
To transform all delusion, though delusions are immeasurable.
To attain the enlightened way, a way non-attainable.
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Re: In Praise of Boredom and Frustration.

Postby Jundo on Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:03 am

HezB wrote:I'm currently feeling quite bored and frustrated in Zazen.

I think this is due to me realising that some of my preconceived ideas about it, and what it will do for me, are just bull poop. Its like I've hit a little seam of mental/physical resistance.


Yep, I think this is one of the most important "obstacles" that we need to learn to "de-obstacle" in our Zazen, the fact that it is BORING! Brad had a great essay on this a few years ago, one of my favorites by him. Please have a look. The essay is not boring.

I suggest it to everybody as one of the most important Zennish essays you will ever read (truly)!

Boredom is what you need. Merging with the Mind of God at the Edge of the Universe, that's excitement. That's what we're all into this Zen thing for, right? Eating tangerines? Come on, dude! What could be more boring than eating a tangerine?


http://homepage.mac.com/doubtboy/boring.html
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Re: In Praise of Boredom and Frustration.

Postby HezB on Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:21 am

Jundo,

Yes, I think reading some similar stuff in one of Brad's books has helped me get a perspective on this now you mention it.

Good essay indeed... needs more swear words though. :twisted:

Regards,

Harry.
Shobogenzo study blog: http://thinknonthinking.blogspot.com/

Please note that the above blog is merely the assertions of a rank novice offered in some sincerity.

...And this is just nuts:

http://bodhiarmour.blogspot.com/
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Re: In Praise of Boredom and Frustration.

Postby Charles on Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:23 am

The version of that essay that showed up in Brad's books is what got me to stop just reading about Zen and start sitting. Odd, right? Who'd want to start doing something so boring? But I figured, here's a practice that isn't being sold to me as some earth-shattering, mind-blowing, instant cure to all my problems. Maybe there's something to it.

--Charles
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Re: In Praise of Boredom and Frustration.

Postby kirkmc on Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:16 am

As usual, Brad has it all wrong. If he can't appreciate eating a tangerine (or any other kind of food for that matter) then he's lost touch with the beauty of the world.

As to sitting being boring, however, that's a given. And it's good boredom. It makes you realize that life is not a bowl of excitement, that we just build up layers of excitement to distract ourselves from reality.

Kirk
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Re: In Praise of Boredom and Frustration.

Postby will on Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:57 am

As usual, Brad has it all wrong. If he can\'t appreciate eating a tangerine (or any other kind of food for that matter) then he\'s lost touch with the beauty of the world.


Don\'t know if your joking, but Brad\'s writing can be a bit sarcastic.

He\'s a Zen teacher, so I think he gets the point. :)

Gassho Will

To save all sentient beings, though beings are numberless.
To penetrate reality, though reality is boundless.
To transform all delusion, though delusions are immeasurable.
To attain the enlightened way, a way non-attainable.
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Re: In Praise of Boredom and Frustration.

Postby Charles on Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:58 am

Kirk,

The quote above is a little out of context. He was actually talking about how awesome eating a tangerine was.

--Charles
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Re: In Praise of Boredom and Frustration.

Postby kirkmc on Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:59 am

Off-topic, but, Will, I'm getting backslashes in all your posts before apostrophes and quotes... Any idea why? You're not posting from some weird box are you?

Kirk
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Re: In Praise of Boredom and Frustration.

Postby will on Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:02 am

Hi Kirk.

I can\'t access the forum in China, so I have to use a proxy gateway thing.

Gassho Will

To save all sentient beings, though beings are numberless.
To penetrate reality, though reality is boundless.
To transform all delusion, though delusions are immeasurable.
To attain the enlightened way, a way non-attainable.
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Re: In Praise of Boredom and Frustration.

Postby kirkmc on Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:28 am

This is new though - it's like you're escaping non alphanumeric characters. Do you see it?

Kirk
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Re: In Praise of Boredom and Frustration.

Postby Longdog on Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:11 am

All I can see out of place is a back slash before each apostrophe, nothing more
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Re: In Praise of Boredom and Frustration.

Postby will on Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:24 am

Hi guys. Hopefully it\'s not too much of a bother.

This is new though - it\'s like you\'re escaping non alphanumeric characters. Do you see it?


Sorry Kirk. I don\'t really know what \"escaping non alphanumeric characters\" means.

This is site, if want to check it.

http://www.privacynest.com

Gassho

To save all sentient beings, though beings are numberless.
To penetrate reality, though reality is boundless.
To transform all delusion, though delusions are immeasurable.
To attain the enlightened way, a way non-attainable.
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Re: In Praise of Boredom and Frustration.

Postby kirkmc on Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:29 am

Sorry, it means putting a backslash before characters that are not letters or numbers, in order to tell the system that they are not to be treated as "special" characters.

Don't worry; just makes your posts a trifle hard to read. :-)

Kirk
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Re: In Praise of Boredom and Frustration.

Postby Jundo on Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:40 pm

For Buddha's sake, can you guys not see that 'backslash before characters that are not letters or numbers' is enlightenment itself? Jeesh. :D

I think you missed the point of Brad's article!

Gassho, Jundo
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Re: In Praise of Boredom and Frustration.

Postby kirkmc on Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:44 pm

Sorry for hijacking the post... I guess enlightenment can be found in backslashes, though not in tangerines.

Kirk
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Re: In Praise of Boredom and Frustration.

Postby TracyF on Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:48 pm

What a boring thread. :mrgreen:

(actually, that's one of my favorite Brad assays too)
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Re: In Praise of Boredom and Frustration.

Postby FeMonky on Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:45 pm

But what if I don't like Tangerines?
Can I find boredom in an apple?
or how about a cup of yogurt?
Plain yogurt, obviously, since strawberries are too exciting for the likes of this Zen group!
:wink:

edit::: Just remembered... Due to a slight food allergy, apples are not boring. they are a waxy-skinned, sweet centered brush with death!... well, more like a wasted day in the restroom... anyhoo... we'll move on to Boredom with Grapes, instead...
gassho and a wry smirk,
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Re: In Praise of Boredom and Frustration.

Postby Fugen on Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:17 am

kirkmc wrote:As usual, Brad has it all wrong. If he can't appreciate eating a tangerine (or any other kind of food for that matter) then he's lost touch with the beauty of the world.

As to sitting being boring, however, that's a given. And it's good boredom. It makes you realize that life is not a bowl of excitement, that we just build up layers of excitement to distract ourselves from reality.

Kirk


I dont think he got it wrong, hes just making a point, and a good one at that.
I dont think siting is boring, its just like everything else.
And have you realized that a bowl is a hole with something surronding it?

May the force be with you
Tb
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Re: In Praise of Boredom and Frustration.

Postby CharlesC on Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:09 pm

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